No oil in car after Jiffy Lube service

Maintenance/Repairs
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61

I Don’t See Where The Change Intervals Matter Here. That Is Not The Problem. The Problem Is That The Check Intervals Were Neglected.

Going 4,500 miles and 3 1/2 months, particularly on an older car is negligence. Going even half of that time or miles without checking and refilling is negligent, but now you know.

Using an oil pressure light as a guide for checking the engine is negligence.

I’ll bet “once bitten, twice shy” will make you and your family members more careful in the future when you stop blaming others.

CSA

62

CSA is correct. The OP is either ignoring the issue that we raised, or…?
Extend your oil change intervals if you like, especially if you are using synthetic motor oil.
NEVER ignore the normal and expected task of checking the dipstick periodically!

On an 11 year old car, even if it has not burned oil previously, things can change suddenly, simply because you are dealing with 11 year old parts. As just one example, if the PCV valve was to get severely gummed up, that could lead to a sudden increase in oil consumption. And, there are a multitude of more complex issues that could arise with the engine of an 11 year old car. To assume that an engine will run in perpetuity without a need to verify that it has sufficient oil in the crankcase is…just plain foolish.

My 2002 car, with over 95k on the odometer, burns no oil. However, I still check the dipstick every few weeks, simply because things can change. If it was to run out of oil between oil changes, I would have nobody to blame but myself.

63

Obviously, there is no way to know what caused this sudden engine failure. It may be pure irony that the failure happened the day following a JL visit. However, the JL store manager told me about the security tape and said I would be allowed to see it. He saw this as a tool to assist in determing what happened and he tried very hard to get authorization to let me view the tape. He wanted to resolve the problem as quickly and as straight forward as possible. Corporate people said “no way” will we let you see the tape and even implicated that if they allowed me to have a copy I might alter the tape to show them at fault. At this point, with that attitude I have no confidence that they would not alter the tape. In addition, the customer service manager was arrogant enough to tell me that I must pay to have the engine torn down & inspected but that I would not be allowed to read the inspector’s report. The customer service agent told me he would tell me the results of the inspection. This is true arrogance to tell me that I could not read a report for which I paid. I am actually more frustrated with their stalling and arrogance than the loss of the car. I am so glad this was not a new car and that we learned a valuable lesson with an older car. I am certain that a tear down and inspection of this engine would only add to our loss in that it would be inconclusive and we would still be at the same he said/she said situation. A quick review of the tape most likely would have resolved the situation. I would love for JL to be able to show me they were not at fault but they have no interest in this resolution.

64

That sounds logiccal. It was my guess, when you said NO OIL CHANGE was to be performed. BUT, GET A LAWYER if they keep stalling. Stalling is the main tactic of corporate Amerika. They hope you’ll just shrug it off and go away. Contact your local newspaper, as well, and the Chamber in your town. This is the reason I do all my oil changes. I know what’s been done.

65

Let’s say that the oil was checked using the dipstick 5 - 10 days before the trip to JL and the level was good. Aren’t you saying that the PCV value (and I don’t know what that is) could have stuck prior to the JL inpsection in the intervening 5 to 10 days since my check. Even with an oil check, we would still have a situation where you could say I could not confirm that the car had oil 5 days before the service or even seconds before the service.

Once again, this could have been resolved so quickly by allowing me to view the evidence on the tape. I believe this would have been allowed if it would have cleared JL of liability. We can say that the JL policy is not to allow anyone to see the tape but I have worked with major corporations for many years and the CEO / owner can do anything he chooses to do without breaking any rules. It is sheer nonsense to say that the tape is “sacred”. This is a privately held franchise operation not a public company.

66

Just my opinion, but I think this is getting a bit ridiculous. There is absolutely zero, zilch, and nada proof that JL has done anything wrong and you’re continuing to try to hammer them for the neglect that you caused.

YOU are the one who does not raise the hood the check anything; and this on a 12 year old/120k miles vehicle to boot.
You’re not familiar with the PCV valve which can be a fine one minute/junk the next affair. Inspecting the PCV is just like checking the oil level; it should be inspected ever so often.
Should I even ask when the last time the PCV was checked? Likely never.

A cut and paste about PCV, oil sludging, and whatnot.
http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm
You state your manual says 5-6k miles oil changes and admit you never check it so I advise you peruse that link carefully.

The dealer says the oil was drained, not replaced, and the drain plug is tight.
So how do they know this pray tell?
Did you tell this dealer that you never raise the hood to check anything? I’m guessing that you omitted this bit of info.

The mechanic says zero compression on No. 1 cylinder. Lack of oil did not cause this but someone whaling on an engine that is suffering a problem could have.

Guess you’re pretty torqued at me now but I’m just telling it like it is. You’ve flogged the car into the ground, it came back to bite you, and now you’re looking for someone else to pick up the tab.

67

I read several comments that the car would not have made twenty miles without oil. That’s not always true. I had a 56 DeSoto hemi that I threw a rod right through the pan. You can’t get less oil than that. I drove it 15 miles home ( It did overheat but at that point I wasn’t worried about further damage.) 3 weeks later I started it up and drove 6 miles to the junkyard. My son bought a 74 duster slant six , it got terrible gas mileage ,overheated on the highway, and had not much power. * months later it seized on the expressway and we towed it to my house. After we changed the engine we removed the pan and found no gear on the oil pump.When I tried the bulb on the oil pressure light I found out it had been removed before he bought the car. It was the first car he bought without consulting me.

68

The engine tolerances on a '56 DeSoto engine and even on a "74 Duster engine were much wider/bigger than on modern engines. The tighter the tolerances of an engine, the less tolerant it is of oil starvation.

69

I want you to use your nose. Open the oil cap and qive the engine a sniff. If the engine ran without oil the smell would be so bad you would never forget it,I am talking skunk in your face bad.

70

I’m a little late to this discussion, but it seems to me, based on the OP, that the folks at Jiffy Lube are at the very least, acting guilty.

Why else would they talk about viewing the tape and needing the engine ‘torn down’ in order to have proof?

If Jiffy Lube claims they had nothing to do with the damage, what do they think an inspection of the engine would accomplish?

A good attorney would probably win this case for the complainant.

The problem is that given the value of the car, the cost of proving the damages might not be worth the expense.

So, my advice is to get as much expert advice and evidence as possible and then take it to small claims court.

That would be your least expensive and possibly best chance to get compensated. The Jiffy Lube people might not even show up.

71

bluesky12, I do sympathize with you, as I`m sure this is not a fun situation, and as I said earlier, an expensive lesson.

Here`s how I see it…

You cling to the tape as god-like evidence and the ultimate answer, when there may or may not be the answer there. However,because JL is witholding it, it makes it more coveted. I, personally, doubt you will find anything helpful there that will help you.

JL has contradicted themselves. One employee says tape is available, another says it is not. Who is correct? Will you ever get the desired result? Who knows? I had a similar situation in a disagreement with my cellular provider, and I simply collected “employee foot-in-mouth” until I had enough to use against them to get my desired result. It took a LOT, trust me.

You could get a lawyer, go to court, etc… but what`s the best possible result? Like I suggested earlier, a possible 50/50 split of costs. SO you get to pay for 50% of your repair, plus a lawyer. What do you think is cheaper?
(the only people who get rich in courts, are lawyers.)

Id write this off as a bad experience, find a reputable mechanic, possibly a used or rebuilt motor for the Camry, and go on with life. The car has given you 120,000 miles of service - and I imagine it is paid for. With your newfound mechanical knowledge and reputable mechanic, theres no reason this particular Toyota won`t give you many more years.

(or, sell it for next to nothing, and disclose the blown motor. Someone mechanically inclined will scoop it.)

PS - read the section on timing belts as it pertains to Toyota`s. Just as important as oil changes, in my opinion.

Regards,
Ryan

72

No Offense Joe, But Are You Serious?
" . . . the folks at Jiffy Lube are at the very least, acting guilty.
Why else would they talk about viewing the tape and needing the engine ‘torn down’ in order to have proof?"

How would that work for a business that bought new engines for everybody off the street claiming that their engine was damaged/destroyed by an inspection or an oil change?

CSA

73

The OP thinks that JL is acting guilty. That’s a subjective opinion. JL is only looking out for their best interests.
While much is made of fast lubes screwing things up these facilities (along with independent shops and dealers) will face people on a weekly basis who will try to lay the blame for every hiccup on a neglected car onto them. They have to be very careful of every word uttered and tread on egg shells to avoid things being miscontrued. The knife cuts both ways.

The OP says they’re guilty because of a refusal to turn over a tape. So what. Company policy is company policy.
Ask Wal Mart, Sears, Home Depot, or anyone else to turn over a surveillance tape and you’re likely going to get the same answer. It’s proprietary and that will be the end of that.

I think if anyone were to place themselves in JL’s position while facing someone who is insinuating or threatening a lawsuit, calling the local TV stations, etc. then they would also be a bit evasive.
If someone were legally threatening you would you keep talking, turn over tapes, etc. or withdraw a bit and clam up? My guess is the latter.

(And any engine that makes it for more than few miles without oil is a worn out engine. At this point “not a drop of oil” has not really been defined. That could mean zero oil or a quart to two; with the latter not showing on the stick.)

One question that I would love to be answered, truthfully, is this one.
Has the OP stated to the JL, the dealer, the mechanic to whom the car was towed, the TV station, etc. one word about their failure to ever raise the hood and check the oil?

74

I would think if the oil had been drained for a change the man in the pit would have replaced the oil filter. a new clean oil filter would indicate this. Also my sister in law has a Camry that lost all of it’s oil after a couple hundred mile drive, no leaks showed. I think it was caused by a faulty PCV valve.

75

Thanks to everyone who has taken their time to respond to my post. ok4450 do you own a quick oil change center or garage? Your replies do seem a bit biased. I am not the type of person to try to get anything for free and I have no problem telling JL we did not check the oil. JL has not asked any questions or returned calls – their strategy is ignore and she will go away. The people I ask to talk to “are not in.” I am sure when the manager told me there was a tape he was totally flustered after inspecting the vehicle at the garage to which it had been towed as to what caused the loss of oil. He could find no evidence of sudden loss and in his attempts to honestly determine what happended, he suggested we view the security tape which was then not allowed by the customer service agent. The oil filter had not been changed as he told me JL works in a team. One team member drains oil from underneath, the other fills oil and replaces filter. My theory is that the lower team member thought the car was in for an oil change – did his draining chore and the top member did not show up as the car was not in for an oil change.

Anyway, once again thanks to all. I am on my way out the door to check the oil in my car and then study up on the PVC valve thing.

To date I have not filed small claims as my son who was driving the car was on his way to the airport at 4:30 AM for a job interview. You can imagine this was a great start to his day but after about 10 calls he found a cab driver who picked him up. Good news is that my son got the job and now lives in NYC. The bad news is that he must travel to NC to appear in small claims court which involves time away from his job and more expenses.

Anyway – out to check the oil. Thanks to all.

76

“The oil filter had not been changed as he told me JL works in a team. One team member drains oil from underneath, the other fills oil and replaces filter. My theory is that the lower team member thought the car was in for an oil change – did his draining chore and the top member did not show up as the car was not in for an oil change.”

At the risk of being wrong, I believe that a '98 Camry’s oil filter is accessed from below. In other words, the person in the pit who drains the oil would also change the filter on this model. (Newer Camrys and Lexuses use a filter that is accessed from above, IIRC.)

So, if I am correct about the placement/access to the filter on a '98 Camry being from underneath, this would essentially destroy your thesis. And, this would only serve to reinforce the prevailing theory in this thread that this is a case of both owner negligence (never checking the oil and/or not observing the low oil pressure light) and coincidence (the situation occurring shortly after the visit to JL).

77

bluesky12 - Using synthetic oil may be why it went so far before the engine blew up. Says a lot about synthetic oil if you can afford it or if the manufacturer requires it. Doesn’t answer the Oil Light question. Oil lights can work on 2 principles. Too litle oil pressure or too high oil pressure. Why I love gauges, but that is my personal preference. Does anyone know if it’s possible that the synthetic oil is the reason for the Oil Light issue? Personnally I wouldn’t think so and believe that most Oil Light indicators would come on in time to shut down the engine before a failure or serious damage became an issue.

78

Bluesky, I Just Want To Add A Couple Of Things.

Going to small claims court is a dice roll. I’ve gone and I’ve won. It could have gone either way in an instant. However, one has almost nothing to lose by trying it. The court cost is very low.

Secondly, no offense, but you seem hung-up on a sudden loss of oil. Please consider that it’s possible that the loss of oil could have occurred over a period of time and that oil consumption in a vehicle’s engine is normal. Filled with oil to the proper level and driven indefinitely (not considering the need for oil changing) with clean oil, all car engines at some point will run low enough to cause catastrophic engine damage.

Usually older engines will run low sooner, because due to wear, they will consume oil more rapidly. That’s why there’s a market niche for “High Mileage” oil.

Good Luck!
CSA

79

CSA

I’m glad that you are trying to reinforce this concept, because every time that this has been mentioned previously, the OP just didn’t seem to get it.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, if my car ran out of oil between changes, I would have only myself to blame.

80

OP, in response to your comment about any possible affiliation I may have with a Jiffy Lube or similar facility I have none, nor have I ever had in any way, shape, or form.

As I’ve mentioned previously, I’m not a fan of this kind of operation because of the business model. That model requires speed and in any hurry-up job (not just automotive) mistakes can be made when going 100 MPH.
Most of the jobs they do will turn out fine. It’s just that the risk of something going wrong increases.

However, you have less than zero evidence that JL did anything wrong. You mention things like “JL should have noticed the oil light on when they drove it out the door”.
If you’re going to use that logic then I could ask why you or your son did not see that light during the 20 miles of driving afterwards.
An engine with no oil does not just blow up or seize without making some noise first.

I’ll bring this up yet once again. Not turning over the tape means absolutely nothing. It’s company policy and besides, I’m not aware that a surveillance tape would be running underneath the car anyway.

Since you’re talking about taking them to court let me ask you one question.
Are you going to stand there in front of the judge and tell them what you’ve related here?

(This means the fact that you never raise the hood, never check the oil, drove it for 20 miles, etc.)