No oil in car after Jiffy Lube service

Maintenance/Repairs
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41

Long time lurker, first time poster…

At the establishment I used to work at, which had a quick-lube place, access to the pit was through a side door and a staircase. Only a camera down below would indicate if someone was down there. Why Jiffy Lube even mentioned a tape is beyond me…

On this one, you may be sunk. If you could provide proof of an oil change - a receipt, a window sticker, anything… you might have a bit of a shot. Since I imagine your receipt indicates inspection, you`re running low on evidence.

Its all burden of proof. You cant PROVE JL drained your oil and didnt refill, and JL cant PROVE they didn`t. And even if you could, JL will throw up the 20 miles driven as neglect, the non-functioning or unseen oil light as neglect, and stonewall you until you give up or grow tired of the fight.

Even in court, I think the best possible outcome would be a 50/50 split in cost, and that`s if the judge takes pity on you.

As for consumption, the only ways to check at an oil change are

  1. check the level before draining the oil, or
  2. catch the drained oil in a seperate bucket and see how much is there.

Jiffy Lube may do this if asked. If not, in todays "10 minute oil change" world, theyll just drop the old stuff, change the filter, and refill. They only check things pertaining to services they can sell (fluid changes, belts, lights, wipers, etc…) They have no interest in monitoring consumption, since they don`t rebuild engines.

My cars both burn a little oil between changes, and neither leak, drip, stink, etc… the only way to tell is monitoring on the dipstick.

It`s a rough, expensive lesson…

Ryan

(Apparantly I`ve got 3 years worth of talking to do at once!)

42

I will just reiterate what I stated earlier. The fact the company does not want to turn over a tape to you does not mean for a second they’re hiding anything.
Businesses have a company policy which state that all video or audio recordings are proprietary and cannot be released to you even if someone at the company wanted to do this.

They will only turn them over voluntarily to a law enforcement agency and since this would be a civil matter the police would not get involved.

I got involved in a traffic accident a couple of months ago at an intersection with trees all around and a convenience store on one corner. Figuring that a surveillance cam might have caught this, I spent a solid month trying to coax, whine, and plead my way into a video copy of one of the cameras, which are saved on a hard drive and can be burnt to CD.
Sixteen cameras, I wanted only one, and as of this date no luck and not likely to ever be. The store manager tried to assist me as much as possible but the corporate office policy is nothing goes out to a private party no matter what.

43

Planet Dude, Welcome Aboard! Your First Post Was “Extra - Terrestrial!”

Ryan, good to have somebody with Quick Lube experiences. We get lots of questions/complaints, as you have seen during the last three years.

CSA

44

bluesky12 has anyone checked to see if the drain plug is still installed in the engine? Reason I ask is if JL had started routine to do oil change in error. They might have loosened the bolt then stopped, when found out oil change wasn’t wanted. But forgot to snug up bolt. It would haven taken awhile for the bolt to work free. Which would account for why driver’s didn’t see oil caution light.

I don’t know how oil caution lights work. But could that have been faulty which compounded the problem. I noted that you say it is on now. But question comes to mind did it light up when it should.

We had oil change where mechanic didn’t snug bolt. Wife drove probably five miles to shop. Got back in car drove another mile when oil light came on. She stopped immediately and contacted me. I got to her location checked oil, car was out. I followed oil track back and found the oil drain bolt that had fallen off.

I use that Mobile Synthetic One and it is good stuff. But to go 20 miles with a dry crankcase I don’t think so. With you saying that you got 120,000 miles on your car means you are no slouch about maintenance either. You don’t come across as a ditzy airhead either. That would have missed the oil light. I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody comes back and says every day before starting your car you should crawl underneath it to check to make sure all the bolts or at least the oil drain plug should be checked for snugness. But let’s be realistic. You go for an inspection you don’t expect a place to mess with your oil. So why would you check your oil when leaving?

Although I will side with folks who say it is a great idea to check your fluid levels when you fill up. But I believe most folks note oil drips especially significant where they regulary park

45

“You don’t come across as a ditzy airhead either. That would have missed the oil light.”

YY

Read the original question and all of the preceding posts again. The OP has told us that his son was the driver of this vehicle, and he acknowledges that his son may not be as diligent as he is.

But, then again, the OP tells us that he never checks the vehicle’s dipstick between oil changes, and that is not exactly what I would consider to be the actions of a prudent car owner.

Nobody has suggested that the OP should crawl underneath his car to check the oil drain plug, but it is assumed that any responsible car owner will check the oil dipstick at least a few times between oil changes. The OP has acknowledged that he NEVER does that, and that he relies on the oil pressure warning light to tell him to add oil–in other words, a fatal assumption.

46

VDCdriver. From the initial post I assumed bluesky12 is the one that took the vehicle in for an inspection. Bluesky12 also said the vehicle was driven on two trips. The second trip the son was driving.

Now in the real world most people don’t check their oil between changes. Highly responsible ones do but by no means most people. When ever I gas up I am the only one checking my fluids.

I went back and read the post the original poster says she expects that the oil caution light would come on if there is a problem. Guess what … we all depend on that. Even when checking fluids during every gaS stop. She makes no mention of using oil caution light for sign to add oil. As in being really irresponsible because she knows there is a problem but doesn’t worry about checking levels

My response to getting under the car to check bolts was tongue in cheek. There are folks on this forum that put significant effort to put blame on driver of the vehicle most if not all of the time. I take my car in for and pay for an oil change I expect oil to be changed and that includes the proper type and the proper amount in the proper place. When it comes time that you can’t trust folks to do their jobs there is a problem.

I would say catastrophic oil leaks are not a huge occurance by any stretch of the imagination. The original poster, bluesky12, aappears to have had a catastrophic failure. She says she has seen no sign of any leakage (as in oil on ground where she parks - if a car has bad seal and pumps out 3 or 4 quartsa of oil between changes it’s going to drop a significant amount of oil where it is parked). I take her at face value on that. She says her son was driving when then car seized. She said she didn’t see oil warning light. I’m saying I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t lit. As a matter of fact I would be surprised if it was. I believe the original poster when she said there was no sign of an oil leak. I doubt the car was burning significant amounts of oil because she mentioned nothing about a blue plume of smoke. In which I deduce (correctly or incorrectly) that this is a catastrophic oil leak. The light might have come on as her son was driving and he continued to drive (which we all know is really dumb) it that is when things got really ugly.

But several folks come across as it’s her fault because she didn’t check the oil in the interim between changes. I’m saying just because someone doesn’t use the same precautions as the most careful on this forum. It doesn’t automatically make the problem the driver/owners fault. It may make it harder or impossible for them to prove. But heck some offered the suggestion that a non-neighborly neighbor might have sabotaged. Our adjudication really does no good. The original poster came here looking for our thoughts.

I offered the possibility that this very well could have been a catastrophic leak caused by a loose oil change bolt or maybe a loosened oil filter that came off. In either of those cases and probably several other possibilities as well, checking the oil in the interim wouldn’t have helped one bit. What would be the difference in adjudicating the case if bluesky12 said she had checked the oil level every morning? It would still be a case of they said, she said.

The original poster has learned that checking the oil at gas fill ups is great idea. The original poster and I have learned that it is definitely not a bad idea to check the oil after an oil change.

If bluesky12 goes to where the car is and finds that the oil bolt or oil filter is missing. There will be folks on both sides of the issue. That is either JL screwed up -or- the original poster or one of her friends or relatives removed the bolt or oil filter to blame JL.

I believe based on what she said that she had a catastrophic failure. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was at Jiffy Lube. But with that opinion and $5.00 you might be able to get a cup of coffee. That is with the very important proviso that you tell no one where that opinion came from.

47

Bluesky, on the business of the (dash mounted) oil pressure light, if you went and turned the key to the RUN position and the dash warning lights come on, does the OIL LIGHT ILLUMINATE?

Perhaps there is a valid reason why no-one seen the oil light.

48

I would assume if this problem were related to the JL leaving a drain plug loose this mechanic to whom the car was towed would have stated as much.

Not checking the oil level over a 4-5k miles period is not a sudden loss of oil.
Who’s to say that a PCV valve did not stick (when was that last serviced) 1500 miles after the previous oil change and the oil consumption started then.

There’s still more of the story floating around. This mechanic says “not a drop of oil”. He’s the mechanic so he ought to be able to make a semi-educated guess about where it went.
Drain plug out.
Tail pipe oily.
PCV stuck.
Drain plug in place so does it appear to be freshly tampered with?
Maybe the phrase “not a drop of oil” means there is none showing on the dipstick although a residual amount could remain in the crankcase. This small amount could have led to air being inhaled through the oil pump pickup tube and engine seizure because a couple of quarts is not going far when it comes to pooling, filling oil galleys, etc.

It’s entirely possible to burn oil with little or no smoke. The converter will catch it.
Bottom line is that no way this car went 20 miles (one or two trips, it matters not) on no oil at all although a couple of quarts could have wheezed it along for a while.

And how many times lately has someone posted on this forum about an engine failure followed by admitting the hood never comes up to check anything. They simply rely on everything remaining constant from one service to the next.

49

It’s entirely possible to burn oil with little or no smoke. The converter will catch it.

That is interesting. I’m not being sarcastic. I had never thought of the catalytic converters being able to handle that kind of load. Most impressive.

It could be a number of things no doubt! I weigh on the side of the bluesky12 based on my personal experience. Other folks weigh on the other side based on their experience.

Issues resolved: 1) Good to check fluid levels several times between oil changes; 2) Good idea to check oil level after oil change.

Issues not resolved to any legal end: Who is going to end up biting the bullet on the cost of this seized engine.

50

I agree witht he last post. hire a lawyer, get a copy of the tape, call the state corporation commission, BBB, local news media. You know if you had oil in it or not. they probably made the error of one of their reps draining oil and then not filling it up. good luck.

51

Went to a quick lube shop once for a oil change “special” got a gallon to much oil added,never went to a quick lube again-never had a problem again.Really it depends on the quality of the people doing the service work-Kevin

52

Y Y, I Understand Your Theory About The Missing (Left Loose) Plug Or Filter. One Should Certainly Check That.

You contradict yourself in saying that you are highly responsible by dilligently checking your oil, but people in the “real world” who don’t and have a problem shouldn’t be accountable. Why do you check your’s?

This “Oil Caution Light” you refer to very well could actually be a “You Are Critically Low On Oil And Suffering Severe Engine Damage” light if it is an oil pressure indication. The only “oil caution” light is one that indicates oil level as does the one in my Bonneville.

What does your owner’s manual say about it?

Older cars can and do consume oil at a rate equal to or more than a quart per 1,000 miles without sending you messages like little smoke signals, or puddles of oil, etcetera. I have owned some.

The shop is to blame if they screwed up. The owner/operator is to blame if the car slowly ran out of oil, didn’t have it replenished, and was driven in that condition.

When an owner/operator says they don’t check oil between changes, especially on an 11-12 year-old car with 120,000 miles on it, then I would have no problem at all in concluding “pilot error”.

You state, “I went back and read the post the original poster says she expects that the oil caution light would come on if there is a problem. Guess what … we all depend on that.” Wrong. One person that doesn’t depend on it, negates this whole statement. I would never depend on an oil light as an indication of my oil level. I depend on physically checking the oil. When that light comes on, it’s too late.

CSA

53

YY

You should have included a third issue that was resolved:
3) Never rely on the oil pressure warning light on your dashboard to inform you that your engine needs a qt of oil.

By the time that the oil pressure warning light (there is no such thing as an “oil caution light”) starts glowing, it is frequently too late to save the engine. The oil pressure warning light means that the engine’s oil pump is not sending sufficient oil pressure to the very sensitive bearings and cylinder walls. This could be from pump failure or it could be from an extremely low volume of oil in the crankcase. A drop of one, two, or possibly even three qts of oil, will NOT cause the oil pressure warning light to come on.

On some cars (certain GM products and BMWs come to mind), there is also a low oil level warning light that does–hopefully–warn of the need to add a qt of oil. However, most cars do not have this type of warning light and any prudent car owner should use the dipstick at least a few times between oil changes if he/she wants to keep his/her car running.

Additionally, many cars now have a maintenance warning light, telling the driver that, based on miles driven/number of cold starts/amount of idling time, the car is due for an oil change. Again, this light does not tell a driver when it is time to add a qt of oil.

So, unless your car has a unique “oil caution light”, you would be well advised to not rely on the typical oil pressure warning light to tell you when to add oil. Apparently the OP did mistakenly think that the oil pressure warning light would do something that it is not designed to do, and he may be paying the price for that mistaken assumption.

Mistaken assumptions like this are really unfortunate, simply because it only takes a reading of the Owner’s Manual to come to an understanding of what one’s warning lights do or don’t do.

54

VDCD, You Are Extremely Wise, Beyond Your Years!
CSA

55

OK, Eloquent!
CSA

56

Thank you.
I humbly accept your compliment, even if I am not sure that it is fully deserved.

Hmmm…Based on my chronological age, this must mean that my wisdom is in the triple digit category…and that is scary.

57

We had the car towed to an excellent Toyota repair shop and he did not note that the oil plug was lose. His opinion was that JL had drained the oil and did not replace but also said as we know there is no way to prove it.

The car still runs but has little compression. Theoretically you can still drive the car but it would be a hazard on the road. It would definitely not pass the state safety inspection. If it would pass inspection and not be a hindrance to others on the road I might drive it with a “Stay away from JL” painted on the car.

58

The oil light is illuminated now. The car will start and will run with very limited compression.

59

Mechanic’s opinion was that it had been drained and not replaced. However, he stated there was no way to prove his opinion.
Mechanic’s summary after inspection: “No oil when dropped off.” Added 3 quarts to get to the add mark of the oil stick. Run but oil light is on. Runs rough Cylinder #1 had no compression, #2 170#, #3 175#, and #4 175#.

I went back to give you a definite mileage driven since the last oil change – the mileage driven was 4,500 and the timeframe of the last oil change was 3 1/2 months prior to the JL safety inspection.
The web site www.aa1car.com states" Synthetic oil allows longer oil change intervals. Because synthetic oil resists oxidation & viscosity breakdown better than ordinary motor oil, it does not break down or sludge up as fast as ordinary motor oil. Some synthetic oil supplies say oil change intervals can be safely extended to 7,500 miles or longer (some claim as much as 25,000 miles).

Per our “Car Talk” buddies Tom & Ray, when interviewed for “Chemical & Engineering News” regarding why engines require oil, they are quoted as saying, “You can change your oil every 3,000 miles if you’re really particular, but we recommend changing it every 5,000. If you change it more often, you are just wasting your money and creating a disposal problem.” The article goes on to say that Tom & Ray are considering revising their recommendation to 7,500 miles. Synthetic oils, because of their better properties, need to be changed less often, at intervals up to 25,000 miles or more. In the end best advice on the type of oil to use and the frequency of oil changes is to follow the manufacturere’s recommedndation in your car owner’s manual.

I do not have the Toyota manual which came with the car in front of me right now but I am pretty sure it recommends oil changes either 5,000 or 6,000 miles. Related to synthetic oil, I have always wondered if when we requested synthetic oil and paid extra for synthetic oil if the mechanic changing the oil really used synthetic oil. When you have to wait in the waiting room while your car is being serviced you have to place a lot of faith in the integrity of the person servicing your car.

60

Good advice. I did try to go to one of our local TV stations but they were not interested. Perhaps due to the fact that JL is one of their big advertisers.