That’s a good one but not too valid. Go back a few thousand years before that for the inhabitants then. But then there never was one sovereign Indian nation but instead many many tribes that roamed various areas and fought with each other, but still treaties were signed and payments made. Maybe we should go back ten thousand years and re-settle everyone in the various continents according to where their ancestors were then, if you could find them. Pick a date if that would make everyone happy. But that’s a silly argument and you know it.
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Germany is the size of Illinois, how many European countries are smaller than texas? and how many wars have they waged through the ages, look at england ireland an scotland as an example and you fault the indians holy bucket o shit
“Treaties were signed and payments made”
Are you disputing that the native americans were suckered into signing documents, which essentially benefitted everybody else, but not them?
They were suckered out of their land by those treaties and agreements, which wouldn’t hold up if it happened today
And they were flat out pushed off their land. Period. Andrew Jackson saw to that, AFAIK
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I don’t fault the Indians at all, I like them. I just don’t accept that the tribes that were in this country in the 1800’s had much of a claim to the lands. Each tribe had the territories that they used and tribes often pushed other tribes off of that territory. So there were no real boundaries or Indian government. We paid various tribes for the land that they claimed. We paid France, we paid Spain. The whole point was that nations including Canada, Mexico, the US, etc. have the right and obligation to protect their borders for the benefit of their citizens and the maintenance of their laws. Otherwise its chaos like you see now in the Mideast.
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“We paid various tribes for the land . . .”
Doesn’t really matter which particular government received money for land
Doesn’t really matter what paperwork or document a particular native american leader signed
The native americans were suckered out of their land
Period
Having the right to protect borders has nothing to do with suckering somebody out of their land, AFAIK
As far as the native americans not having “a claim to the lands” . . . we are essentially in disagreement
AFAIK, at the time, they didn’t have the same kind of governments, cultures, laws, documents, etc. as the european nations and the colonists. Which made it easy for them to get manipulated and suckered
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@bing reworded for historical significance, I don’t fault the white people at all, I like them, I just don’t accept that countries in Europe in 1800s had much of a claim to the lands. Each country had the territories they used and European countries pushed other countries off that territory ad infenatum, now get back to cars, as the revolution lives, we still drive on the wrong side of the road! Take that you British Monarchs.
Edit to add The indian cultures did not believe in the ablility to own mother earth, so selling it to them was like what a silly idea, you cannot own this but if you want to give me money for nothing I own, like a view of the sky, sure why not.
OK. I give up. The good part is all the people that got defrauded or killed while the nation was developing are all dead now so its a moot point. They are receiving their reward or punishment in the promised land now.
The thing is, I’ve never owned a Ford that I can recall. I had a Lincoln once but never a Ford. But still I have a lot of concern for what happens to companies like this, the cities they are in, and the people that are working for them. My folks had a few Fords and I liked them.
“The good part is all the people that got defrauded or killed while the nation was developing are all dead now so its a moot point”
What kind of a statement is that? Dismiss both sides my families that are DAR, Daughters of the American Revolution with lineage to fighting in the revolutionary war, or Elizibeth Buffum Chase and the quakers that were abolitionists and dared not go to Boston or if they did suffer the pain of death, or Sarah Buffum who died in prison while awaiting witch trial mostly because she was a QUAKER?
Crap they are all dead now, so whatever you might do in life it does not matter because in a few years you will be dead? Drive on bro.
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Trump only wants to let white Europeans across the borders. Calling everyone of a certain race or religion as terrorists or murderers has nothing to do with protecting boarders.
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Border controls are normal; every country has the right to inspect persons and vehicles entering. The Berlin wall was put up by East Germany to keep citizens IN!! since the freedom and standard of living in West Germany wa so much higher than in the East.
By comparison, Canada and the USA have the world’s longest undefended common border, nearly 7000 miles in total. . There are less than 500 border guards and no tall fences. The number of border guards on the US South border numbers in the thousands for a border 1/3 as long.
Currently there are 15,000 to 20,000 illegal persons in Canada from all countries of the world. Many are visitors who have overstayed their visas. Some are criminals and terrorists.
So the 14 million illegals in the US is a disproportionate problem that needs to be addressed. Simply granting all these persons amnesty is not a solution and only invites more to come. The vast majority of those illegals are economic opportunist and not refugees fleeing from danger, unless you count a Mexican drug dealer fleeing a gang war as a refugee.
So Trump is calling attention to a real problem and is offering a solution.
Since the Indians didn’t believe land could actually be “owned” by any man, I image they thought THEY got one over on the incoming Europeans. Much like selling the Brooklyn bridge.They accepted payment, chuckled and moved on much as they would have done as nomads anyway. Until, of course, the newly formed US kept moving them on, and on, and on until there wasn’t anyplace to go but the reservations.
And then a car company was named after an Indian - Pontiac
Considering I’ve been told I’m 1/16 Native American, I harbor quite a bit of anger over how they’ve been treated. But accurate history about this period is warped by the victors as well as the revisionists. The truth is elusive.
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I’m not the one that said the Native Americans didn’t have a concept of ownership of land
Talk to @Barkydog about that
What’s 1/16" . . . great grandfather, or something that far back?
I’m sure most or all of us aren’t fully “anything” one way or the other, if we ever bothered to really check into it. I mean scientifically, dna sample, etc.
That’s fine with me, because I know I’m mixed, split down the middle . . . won’t bother to mention exactly what I am, because that’s besides the point . . . but probably not with some others, who probably pride themselves on being full-blooded whatever it may be. Those guys probably shouldn’t bother to look into it too closely, lest they be shocked to find out they’ve been wrong. And now they might have to eat crow, at least in their own minds
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I was adding that point but I missed Barkydog’s similar comment a few back.
This new format… sometimes I reply to the person, sometimes to the group, depending on where my mouse clicks…sheesh!
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I also find the new format a little hard to follow, at times 
Well, I now hear there’s a bit of Neanderthal in all of us descended from Europeans…
;-]
Ha ha . . . I don’t doubt that
AFAIK . . . the scientists still haven’t put it to bed, whether Neanderthals died out 100%, or whether there was some cross-breeding with cro-magnon, which would mean the genes are still around
I seem to remember reading some of the most recent Neanderthal remains were discovered in mediterranean regions
Having neanderthal genes should theoretically be no insult
After all, they had a slightly larger brain than we did, and they were powerfully built. Apparently, if a neanderthal man were to theoretically shake your hand, it would be pulverized 
Hi. Closing this one, because it seems it’s gone off and stayed off cars.
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