[b][i]Next Up: Feds Want To Require Black Boxes For 2015 Model - Year At A Cost Of Possibly $4000 To $5000 Per Vehicle -
Where Do You Draw The Line ?[/i][/b]
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100530/OEM/100529826/1424
CSA
While some might be quick to judge one party or another, it’s a combination of people responsible. First, like other s have said, if they didn’t have such tiny windows for us to peer through, then we might be able to see what’s around us. Second, the driver should have checked to see what might have been going on behind him. Third mandated safety protocols tend to lead back to #1
that said, I have a camera on my car and love it. I know I still have to look around, but it helps knowing I can see what’s directly behind me.
Actually - I’ve always wanted the fabled “black box” in my car. And more than once I’ve thought that they would be great for sorting out the Toyota accelerators and other kinds of weirdnesses.
But we have black boxes - they’re called scantools. And with today’s digital media memory capabilities? Any estimate of $4-5K per car is absolutely insane. Something not so smart is going on there. Get me the contract to create the standard for all cars. I’ll figure out how to get it down to about $10 per car.
See, I also don’t really think of black boxes as being anywhere near the same category as backup cameras. The black boxes are about gaining info when these complex systems have their inevitable failures. They’re actually part of engineering (though at the back end - monitoring to go into the next stuff).
Its sort of needed in complex systems. That’s why I’m not an anti-regulation guy. Until we get rid of massive organizations (of ALL kinds) such things are needed. But if we can downsize (the CORPORATION AND the state) we might be able to have less complex socio-technical systems and less proneness to unpredictable disaster.
That said, I also have to register my displeasure with car manufacturers who seem to be building vehicles with less and less rearward visibility.
It isn’t really their fault. New safety regs force the car to be taller, because they want you to hit a pedestrian high enough up on his body so that he doesn’t cartwheel into the windshield. So once you make the hood higher up, you have to raise the trunk too.
Improving visibility is a good idea; achieving that with a back up camera is not. I think an exterior that pops out when the vehicle is in reverse is a better idea. At least a separate dedicated LCD screen should be mounted on the roof of the vehicle facing forward.
I don’t think drivers should be encouraged to face forward, focused on the mirror and a screen when driving in reverse. Those devices only shows what the vehicle is about to hit, not the traffic that they should be avoiding. Drivers should be encouraged to turn their heads around and look at where their vehicles are going and any potential, instead of just imminent, collisions.
[i] A car with a back-up camera was available to anybody wanting to buy one if that was seen as a priority. [/i]
Sure. But how many people would not bother with them and when a child is injured or killed, can you be sure it will be the driver's kid and not my grandkid?
If the risk is only present for the car owner, well maybe. But in this case the risk is not just to the car owner. It is like speed limits. We limit the speed on the highway because the speeder is likely to not only kill themselves, but others as well.More On Back-Up Cameras:
77 % of the back-up victim pedestrians are children under 5 years old and adults over 70 years old. That’s who they’re trying to protect. Most children hit are hit by a direct relative.
An interesting article I read today:
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20101204/AUTO03/12040312/1148/Best-backup-cameras-improve-vehicle-safety
Check out the system (Infinity Around View Monitor) Nissan’s got on the Infinty FX. It sounds pretty cool. Anybody out there using one ?
At a reasonable price tag, I could see wanting one.
CSA
What was the toddler doing in thd driveway???
I Hear You. There Are Quite A Few “Parents” Out There Today That Don’t Watch Their Kids. I Guess They Think Govenment Intervention Will Keep Them Safe.
We had local folks who actually bought hunter’s orange hats for their kids because they sometimes strayed onto the highway.
We have toy choking hazard standards, leaded paint standards, crib recalls, etcetera. Parents are being conditioned to think they don’t have to do as much to keep kids safe.
That said, I certainly wouldn’t want to back over one of their loose off-spring. With people living longer we’ve got more seniors walking around, too. Many have limited physical and mental ability. I wouldn’t want to hit somebody’s Nanna, either.
I personally do a lot of walk-around type checking, regardless of where I’m parked.
CSA
On my 2011 Outback, I have a back-up camera, and I have grown to really like it.
I did not specifically order this feature, and since it was bundled with a lot of other technology, I don’t really know how much the camera added to the cost of the car.
As to why I have grown to really like it, the wide-angle nature of the lens gives me a view of what is directly under my rear bumper, as well as a view of what is behind me, along with “hash marks” giving me estmated distances between the car and objects in back of it.
I always look at the monitor when backing out of the garage, just in case a neighbor’s child or pet is behind the car. But, because of the ability to see what is on the ground very close to the rear bumper, it recently saved me from a potential tire puncture and/or body damage to the car.
I had been doing some yard work in the early morning, and had left a rake (the heavy metal type–not a leaf rake) on the garage floor in back of the car with the intention of doing more yard work later in the day. It was one of those days when I did not envision having to leave the house at all.
When I suddenly realized that I needed to make one of those all-too-often runs to Lowe’s, I got into the car quickly, completely forgetting about the rake that I had left on the garage floor. If not for the back-up camera, I could have had some significant damage to the vehicle.
Yes, I was being a complete doofus, but the fact remains that we all can experience a “brain fart” occasionally, with the result that we do things without totally thinking through the process. A bit of technology can help to prevent accidents when we are being less-than-thorough.
I really want to say that it is the parent that knows best for the child and for the state to stay out of the parent child relationship but time and time again it is the parent who turns out to be the one that can impact the most damage on a child along with the most benifit. Finding the line of when the states’s actions are intrusive or required actions is such a tough job. I do agree that we are seeing uneeded intervention by the state but I know why it is happening,it is just too hard to develope that perfect amount of intervention, there is always going to be error and those that are currently making the rules are choosing to error on the side they say is giving the child the most “protection”
I could use a back up camera to help line up my SUV with a boat too heavy to “jiggle” around over the hitch; so if it were adjustable, I could go for that. Otherwise, a wireless one that could attach with a magnet on the end of a trailer would be fine too.
Is Santa listening ?
As usual, this is simply a proposal right now, so I don’t see it as a knee-jerk reaction. It’s just an idea being considered.
That being said, I think it’s a great idea. Car makers have been decreasing rear visibility with new designs for a long time, and this would do more than just save lives. It would save money. It would prevent a lot of parking lot collisions.
I think every SUV and minivan should require these already. Have you tried backing up an SUV or a minivan? You can’t see anything.
I have a back-up camera on my motor home, and it makes a huge difference. If I didn’t have it, I would not be confident at all backing the thing. I think if you tried it, you would be sold on the fact that these systems are worth every penny.
Proposals like this frequently die before becoming law, or get scaled back. They probably won’t require these cameras for every vehicle. You should save your outrage for when that happens. There is a good chance these will only be required for vehicles that need them
You have to be careful about statistics. My local fire department is repainting their firetrucks from yellow to red. They always hated the yellow, but statistics showed that yellow fire trucks were involved in fewer wrecks than red ones. Assuming it was because yellow is easier to see, they repainted all their trucks back in the 80’s.
Turns out, yellow fire trucks are involved in fewer wrecks because there are fewer yellow fire trucks.
There’s a very interesting (well, interesting if you’re a dork like me) book out there called Traffic that has some compelling counter-logic to the “make everything safer” arguments. The gist of it is that as driving becomes safer, people adjust their driving habits to be less safe. Widening the road, seat belts, etc, all make people drive faster because they feel safer.
I’m with you there, doubleclutch. The single greatest cause of accidents is the driver and far too many are sorely lacking in many areas relating to safety. I will reiterate my opinion that licenses should be graduated and color coded and affixed to a vehicle as prominently as the registration. Learners permits, speed restrictions, DUI convictions, road rage convictions, etc., should be apparent to fellow drivers.
Back to the driver here. It would be impossible to legislate enough technology to eliminate irresponsible drivers causing accidents that are apparently avoided by responsible drivers without the gadgets. The irresponsible driver wouldn’t clean the lens on his rear facing camera…
It would be impossible to legislate enough technology to eliminate irresponsible drivers causing accidents that are apparently avoided by responsible drivers without the gadgets.
You will get no argument from me on that. I think American drivers typically have terrible driving skills and very low attention span. That being said, I think there are many responsible drivers who keep their cars clean (which would keep the lens clean).
Yes, many irresponsible drivers wouldn’t benefit, but the responsible drivers would benefit, and I don’t think the answer to any problem is to cater to the lowest standard.
As the technology and Chinese labor bring the cost down even more, it maybe a mute discussion. My guess is that when the installation cost approaches a certain number, capitalism takes over and it’s offered as standard equipment on most all makes and models just to keep up with sales. Just as some auto manufacturers started offering stability control long before mandated, and some making it standard equipment on some makes. Hang in there. It will become as indispensable as air and power windows.
Back up cameras almost always come standard with the navigation package anymore
As part of an option package…we’ll see it as standard equipment.