What is TSB’s? Is that a service report?
I know when I took it to Len Stoler the Mechanic told me about a service report on the brakes. That is when Valley told me it did not apply to my car. It was for 2008’s. So they champered the brakes 3 different times before they changed the calipers and pads “AS A COURTESY”.They did something that supposedly didn’t apply to my car.
But all along I have been telling them I think the noise is coming from the steering, not the brakes. I don’t hear any noise when I come to a stop sign. It is only when I am making a slow sharp turn like into a parking spot.
About 2 months ago, I went to get the car checked again, and on the counter was a pamphlet from Audi, describing brake noise. All the times I had been in there before that pamphlet and never been there.
All the service records that I have state " Customer says there is a loud groaning noise coming from the steering" Yet they replace the brakes. Maybe they should try replacing the windshield wipers and see if that works.
So he should punish them for being treated like this by buying another one?
TSB is short for Technical Service Bulletin.It is not the same as a recall.This is simply communication from the manufacture advising mechanics that what to check when they are presented with a certain complain
Numerous things can instigate a TSB, one is numerous claims filed from Dealerships seeking to get paid for a job. If the manufacture recieves a lot of claims for let’s say a steering component that needed to be replaced due to noise, the manufacture will investigate and advise the mechanic what to do.
In the case of 2008 A4’s (I could not access TSB’s for 2009), the manufacture has told mechanics to make sure power steering fluid level is correct before deciding that a part needs replaced.
I called this TSB odd because they gave no diagnostic instructions or any further instructions after just saying “check the fluid first”. Audi knows that A4’s make noise from the power steering (just like you do) but they are keeping pretty quiet about what to do about it.
You need to somehow find out if Audi includes 2009 A4’s in this warning list. If the problem was safety related then the concern could rise to recall status, it has not.
You can use this TSB (if Audi includes 2009 models in it) to support your claim that your car has a mechanical defect. Your car should not be making noise from the steering system.
If I were in the OP’s shoes, I would not be concerned with punishing the dealership. My concern would be getting rid of the Audi. Hopefully the OP can get the dealership to exchange the car, but if all else fails, I would look at trading the car in on a 2011 (if that is at all financially feasible).
Dear Oldschool,
You have been so helpful in your replies, thank you.
How do I search for a TSB? This would certainly back me up when I have said from the beginin that there is a groaning noise coming from the steering. And they act like what I just said is so completely impossible. All new cars make noise.
Oldschool, I don’t want to alienate you or your good advice. I know you are trying to help this vehicle owner, but you state that most cars you observed being bought back were BMWs “Just the facts ma’am”. Where did you observe this? Back it up with facts please.
Let me add a few comments to the OP.
You state you have talked to service reps, which I take to mean service writers or managers. Very very few of these people have much in the way of mechanical ability so they try to BS their way through things to avoid looking incompetent. Things like eating oil or power steering fluid, that’s the way it is, yada, yada, yada, are all part of the blathering to cover up lack of knowledge.
As to the groan, and without car in hand, some things to consider.
Groans can be caused by air bubbles but one would hope if this were the case the problem would not have gone on this long.
Possibility of a groaning sway bar bushing. It’s a new car and this should not be the case but turning the steering wheel chances the vehicle stance and it’s always possible.
What about the possibility of a mutant suspension part that was never lubed during manufacture? These parts are not made by Audi and just like all other car makers, these parts are sub-contracted out.
What if a ball joint, tie rod end, etc. was manufactured and escaped the lube by accident. The part could have been installed at the factory without ever knowing it was dry and when the weight of a car and power steering pressure is applied a groan could develop.
Yet another could be a vibrating pressure line that is not securely fastened or dampened.
This would be extremely rare but things like this do occur when pressure is applied to a fluid line. An analogy would be a length of water pipe in a home crawl space in which the pipe can vibrate and make a humming noise if the tap is turned on just right.
Just theories for consideration anyway.
HKara, You Could Search For Audi Dealers And Get Some Phone Numbers. Try And Befriend A Nice Service Employee Who Will Search The Audi TSBs For You. Tell Them What You’re Looking To Find.
You don’t have to tell them the whole story, but rather that you heard there is a problem covered by a TSB and you want to know if it covers your car. Without naming your dealer and where you live, the problems you’ve had etcetera, you could let them know that you are looking for a new dealer in their area that can attempt to fix your car and that’s why you’re calling.
I have had service (and even parts) department people do this for me and some even print out the bulletin. You may have to give them some time and call back later to see if they had time to search for you. Make a few calls if necessary and see if anybody’s willing to help.
By the way, TSBs are available to mechanics and individuals by subscription. The dealers all have access to them.
CSA
I got in touch with the NHTSA, and they gave me info on Audi A4’s. Apparently I am not the only one with an A4 steering problem, there have been other complaints. Besides the noise, the steering gets stiff.
When I have test driven the car with the techs and service manager they have told me this is normal that it is the power assist that gets stiff. When that happens it’s like I don’t have any power steering at all. They have insisted it’s normal. Meanwhile Audi is aware of the problem and refuses to do anything about it. Yet when the service manager sees and hears this, and I’m telling them I hear the noise from the steering they still went ahead and fixed the brakes. Can anyone explain that one?
As a policy of mine I don’t designate Dealers I have worked at by exact name, at times I have noted the city they were in. What purpose would it serve to state the Dealer by name, do you have the ability to either comfirm or discredit my information if I did?
I certainly would not post the customers name, or a source that provided me information. Wrench you just going to have to go to bed wondering if I am BS’in on this one.
Simply at the GM and BMW Dealers I have worked at I became aware of more buy backs at the BMW Dealers, I have stated that mechanics don’t know all there is too know in regards to just what numbers are being bought back.
You are going to have to try harder wrench.
While I assume this has been checked (assumed can be a bad word at times), has anyone considered the possibility of low tire pressure; either on one or both front wheels?
Low tire pressure (and even alignment to a point) can cause the steering to become tighter. In turn, this could cause the power steering pump to work harder which means the pressure needed to do that same task goes up. Maybe this extra bit of pressure is the tipping point between noise and no noise.
Just a horrific thought anyway.
oldschool,have you worked at an Audi/BMW/ Porsche Dealership? What vehicle has the most problems?I think you are BSn .Yes, I do have contacts at BMW N.A. They keep very good records of all these incidents.If you don’t like BMW’s, so be it. Its a free country, but don’t state something without backing up your statements.I didn’t bash Audi, I simply do not care to work on the vehicles. I worked on Audi 100’s and Foxes through the 5000’s to present. I went through the whole unintended acceleration recall that prompted the law that all vehicles owners had to press on the brake pedal to engage the transmission. All vehicles have their good and bad production year models.
You actually think I don’t like BMW?( I have owned 5) you need glasses. Now lets stop messing up H Kara’s thread she is here for help. You can think what you like, no concern of mine.
here are a few of my "bona fides"
http://community.cartalk.com/posts/list/2125180.page
The tires are fine now. When I took the car in because the oil light came on at 2500 miles, I also had them check the tires. Each tire was overinflated by 10 pounds. I guess trying to kill me is one way to stop my complaining.
Hi Oldschool,
The rear passenger window won’t go up on my MDX all the other windows work so I don’t think it’s the motor. Any fixes I can do myself. Not afraid to tackle the job.
oldwrench, you need to calm down. i did not gather that old school hated BMWs, just was making observation. all of old schools threads were very calm to me.
attack the problem, not each other.
Just for information, here is Maryland’s take on their Lemon Law:
Maryland’s Lemon Law
Protecting You from Getting Stuck with a Lemon
Maryland’s Lemon Law: The Automobile Warranty Enforcement Law
In Maryland, the Lemon Law protects you from getting “stuck” if the new vehicle you buy turns out to be a problem. When a new car, light duty truck, motorcycle or multi-purpose vehicle has been “repaired” for the same problem four or more times, or the vehicle has been out of service for at least 30 days for repairs, under the warranty, you are entitled to a new vehicle or a refund for the vehicle you have bought. If the problem involves the steering or braking system, only one attempt to repair it is required.
How to Pursue a Claim
Your owner’s manual will have the specifics on how to pursue a claim if your vehicle meets all the requirements of a real lemon! Your new vehicle only qualifies under this process if the problem you have with it occurs during the first 24 months or 18,000 miles. Before the time or mileage limit is up, you must report the problem in writing to the manufacturer by certified mail. Request a return receipt so you have a record of the notification. After you notify the manufacturer of your problem, you must give them the opportunity to fix it.
What Happens Next?
The manufacturer must fix your vehicle’s problem, or replace it. The manufacturer can also refund you the full purchase price for the vehicle, less a reasonable allowance for your use of the vehicle. If you are refunded for your vehicle, the manufacturer must notify you in writing that you are entitled to the recovery of the excise taxes you paid on the vehicle. The Maryland Motor Vehicle Administration will then be able to refund your excise taxes, calculated on the amount of the refund you received.
Need More Information?
The Consumer Protection Division of the Maryland Attorney General’s Office can give you more information on the Lemon Law, and assist you in resolving a Lemon Law problem.
* Call Our Hotline Number: In the Baltimore area: 410-528-8662
(9 A.M. to 3 P.M. Monday through Friday)
* In the D.C. Metro Area: 301-470-7534 TDD for hearing impaired persons: 410-576-6372
* Write: 200 St. Paul Place, 16th Floor, Baltimore, MD 21202
* E-mail: consumer@oag.state.md.us
* Visit the Consumer Protection Division's website at: www.oag.state.md.us/consumer/lemon.htm for more information.Thank you for sending this. As stated above the car has been in the shop many times for the same complaint. All service receipts show that I have been complaining of a loud groan coming from the steering at slow speed,like when parking. On the receipts they said that they have never been able to duplicate the noise. But as a courtesy they replace the brake calipers and pads hoping that would fix the problem. I do have a voice mail on my phone from the service rep at the dealership stating he and the technician have heard the noise and it was louder than when he and I test drove it. I have been complaining of a steering problem yet they fixed the brakes.
I have filed a complaint with the Consumer Protection Agency, forwarded copies of all service records, all letters from lawyers to Audi of America, and all letter from lawyers to me. Lawyer were ineffective so I am going it alone. I also sent a copy from the NHTSA
showing other complaints on the Audi A4 for the same steering problem.
Since the first time I brought the car in, about 2 weeks after I bought it, it has been in the shop for sometimes 7 to 10 days at a time. So I am way over the 30 days.
I am hoping for a full refund. I have less than 3,000 miles on it because I don’t believe it is safe to drive, even though they tell me it is. How do they know when they don’t know what the problem is and can’t fix it?
Wish me luck.
After much discussion last time around, I filed a complaint with the Consumer Protection Agency last month.
Today I finally heard from an Audi Mediator and I explained the whole story and told him I wanted a buy back or another car.
He told me that under Maryland law they are entitled to try and fix the problem once a complaint has been filed. I told him that they had 8 chances to fix it. They have replaced the brake pads and calipers and the noise is still there and getting louder and worse every time I drive it. But since it is and intermittent noise the dealer claims that if they don’t hear it there is no problem. Even though they have heard it in the past.
I asked the Audi Rep, if they did not hear a noise why then did they replace parts that did not need replacing? I also asked him what happens if the factory rep. hears it and can fix it, am I stuck with the car?
His answer was yes, because the car now is fixed. And if the factory rep. doesn’t hear a noise, then there is no problem and I am still stuck with this car. So either way I am screwed. All this servicing has greatly diminished the value of the car, even though it only has 3,000 miles on it.
But looking through all my papers, I have filed to separate complaints with 2 different lawyers.With the first lawyer I never got a response from Audi. The second lawyer emailed me saying Audi wanted to give me $2500 and I got to keep the lemon.
This is the first time I have heard from Audi directly. Every time I filed a complaint I have a service record that shows the car was back in the shop for another attempted repair.
Every record says customer complains of a loud groaning noise coming from the steering. Yet they never did anything to the steering except top off the fluid. But they replaced the brakes parts.
Can anyone explain this, and does anyone know anything about this law? After 8 tries do I have to let them try and fix it again?
My mediator at the Consumer Protection Agency is on Vacation, can’t get any answers from her. Plus as she has told me a few times, she is not a lawyer.
Posted by: H Kara
I also asked him what happens if the factory rep. hears it and can fix it, am I stuck with the car?
If they finally fix it, won’t that solve your problem? I know it won’t make up for the hassles you have already faced, but you wouldn’t your problem be solved?
Some problems like this go on and on until the right person gets your car and finally finds the problem. Some problems are just really hard to diagnose, the this person might finally have the expertise to find and fix the problem. Do you really have anything to lose by letting them try one last time? You don’t want to seem unreasonable to the mediator by refusing this opportunity for them to get it right.