Yes do as Wentwest outlined and he doesn’t even charge for his consultation.
Trans was replaced oct 15? Dealer needs core for your job? Where is old trans now? How can anyone measure fluid left inside?
Cavell: CVT /Tran was replaced Nov 5, 2017. Old CVT/tran was placed in same box the new one came in, with a promise from Subaru they would not touch nor remove it till we advised them to. That said, we are driving down there tomorrow to make sure it is still there. It has a Scan tag on it that matches up to our car. We HOPE there is a) enough fluid left for a 2nd sample and b) a way to measure the remaining amount c) Subaru continues to work with us, store it, help us remove fluid, and testify or provide a document on letterhead stating what they found (it says a truncated version on the receipts.
Thanks wentwest, but that’s how we started the process.
We typed up a letter stating exactly what happened, the dates, the Subaru conclusion, attached photos, and copies of receipts; and ended with a request for reimbursement of the exact amount we spent, as noted on the receipts.
We sent a copy to Tire Franchise ( I am sooo tempted to say the name…), they told us to work with Claims Mgmt, we sent same letter/photos/receipts copies, request for reimbursement letter to Claims Mgmt.
Then got this letter stating they are refusing the claim on the basis that the fluid was tran fluid.
( I note that they did not refer to it as ‘CVT fluid’, as pointed out by a previous poster. We wouldn’t know, but you’d think the adjuster/lab would have pointed that out…though they did not send us a copy of their lab report.
(Funny, even the Subaru tech called it tran fluid, maybe just their catch-all name since they realize us non-mechanics still consider it a transmission.
Subaru opened a bottle of the authorized fluid (I did not read the label to see if it was CVT).
It was a pretty light blue- translucent, strong but not corrosive smell.
The stuff that came out of our transmission was murky, dark viscous…and a really strong/obnoxious smell.
Only question:
would this ‘pretty/see-through’ CVT fluid turn murky dark after 45,000 miles in a sealed system?
I just Googled Forester CVT fluid and found this photo of one being flushed- the color is dark!!!
Why did the trans fail? Low fluid and/or wrong fluid? The discussion seems to hinge on quickie lube possibly draining “some” trans fluid and than adding non-cvt fluid?
Yup- that was Subaru’s assessment…When they saw the stripped screw and the sign of a leak from that CVT plug, they said the hesitation could be from it just being drained low from the leak
Then they immediately said that their top concern about this breach of what is supposed to be a sealed system was the possibility the Tire tech tried to rectify the mistake by replacing the leaked fluid with something other than the appropriate fluid.
Now, I know that regular transmission fluid is usually red, perhaps that’s what they added; that would be closer to the brown/dark color we saw, than the pretty see through blue CVT fluid Subaru showed us
(till I googled images - and found the one I posted above of a Forester’s CVT fluid being flushed out
…so now I am hoping to hear whether anyone knows if the proper fluid would turn dark after 45,000 miles???).
As it ages, transmission fluid will darken, yes. This does not, however, mean that the oil change place didn’t dump in the wrong fluid to cover their tracks. As you’ve probably never had the transmission serviced based on the mileage, it’s pretty obvious that someone messed up the plug recently, because if it had been a long time ago the fluid would have leaked out a long time ago. And since they’re the most recent place you took it…
All that said, if you’re not willing and/or able to take them to court over it, then you probably aren’t going to get anywhere.
And THAT said, if you are willing to pay a lawyer for an hour of her time, she could write a strongly worded letter to them on her firm’s letterhead and that might just scare them into making you happy.
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The only reason I brought this up is that if I remember correctly, the Valvoline fluid is a brownish honey color to begin with and has a peculiar odor, as opposed to the factory Subaru fluid. I’m guessing the tire shop installed an aftermarket fluid and not Subaru factory fill.
not what it makes much difference to OP at this point, but I wanted to contribute few notes on “Valvoline fluid”
I’ve been using Valvoline in both CVT and “classic” transmissions for many years and with great results, but there are at least 2 fluids to note:
Here is CVT one:
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Document/18452/a9437451-fe75-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3/89a30b24-93bb-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1
Here is “classic” multi-vehicle ATF:
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Document/18452/66447451-fe75-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3/a258878d-fbbc-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1
both fluids are bright red, pomegranate tint in color
The “multi-vehicle ATF” indeed has quite a peculiar smell (yew!), while I did not notice CVT fluid from Valvoline to stink any stronger than other types
CVT fluid type was substantially more expensive than “multi-vehicle ATF” type
Sure enough, getting wrong fluid into Subaru’s CVT would make it slip and eventually fail
There are dozens of different ATF out there. Not all of it is universal and you should always use what is compatible with the OEM specs. Just because they put in transmission fluid does not mean they used the right stuff.
Who does the dealer use to test the oil? I would start there.
I am just as horrified that at the dealer that charged $8,500 to replace the transmission. That is half the value of the car.
yes, seems a little bit over the limit
I had CVT replaced under warranty in 2013 Nissan Sentra and the final invoice had $4,500 for both parts and labor, then “covered under warranty” line and $0 in the totals line, but even that scared me into selling this vehicle shortly after
The MSRP for that transmission is $6118.18. The dealer was probably surprised that someone would pay that much, customers sometimes ask for a used transmission or engine to be installed when the cost is that high.
Nevada…and everyone…wish I had the smarts, time and wherewithal to have posted on this site on the day it all hit the fan.
Meanwhile:
the Subaru place still has the original transmission and will keep it there as long as we need it.
They lifted it up for us yesterday to drain some more of this dark fluid into a jar for us, and also poured a sample of the authorized translucent blue CVT fluid that should have been in there. …AND a brand new quart of it- still sealed.
They were not able to find the Service Bulletin mentioned by a previous poster about taking caution because of the proximity of the oil plugs and transmission plugs.
They did find a Subaru chart that showed 2013 and previous Foresters required a red CVT fluid, but ours (2014 and up) required a green fluid ( looks more aqua/blue to me, but definitely not red.)
We spoke to a number of fluid testing laboratories - of the 7 emailed of contacted, only 3 have responded so far . Most say they cannot test what we need, or rather they might not be able to measure/detect the difference between the fluids, just the presence of impurities/metals.
They mentioned IR: infrared scanning, but it would take a number of scans using known comparisons, at approx $300 each.
The only positive in that, is it infers that their Claims Management refusal of our claim based on the fact that their ASCE certified investigator found the fluids were ‘similar in nature’…I highly doubt they were able- or inclined, to do a lot of expensive testing- in far away labs- in less than 2 weeks.
We are carefully documenting everything… went to the courthouse law library to verify legal terms, and prove the actual Statute of Limitations (we think our situation is most likely “Negligent Services” or “Negligently rendered services”. ) If so, Negligence falls under a Florida Statute of Limitations of 4 years, not 3 weeks as they claimed.
Then, IF we win in Small Claims, we have to figure out how to COLLECT from a major corporation with deep pockets and many lawyers.
Sigh
That is the easy part. They will pay to make you go away if you win. If they don’t you can get a court order to facilitate your collection. Good luck!
Not always - sometimes they’re obstinate, and then you get to have fun and become a media sensation:
Propane + Shadowfax…thanks for the upbeat assessment- and laugh.
From what we read- there is little recourse to collect the judgment from a recalcitrant defendant, esp since they are not an individual who just needs a court order for garnishing wages…but I sort of see the point to just get us to “go away” albeit just a Small Claims Court for half what they cost us.
Still wondering how much I can nudge them AFTER a positive judgment: going to local TV news Consumer reporters, (my husband would be so embarrassed at best, or strangle me at worst) etc…I’ll do more research on it.
Great thoughts and ideas on this forum- from the depressing to the informative to the ironic.
@dsears3
Thus far, you’ve been reluctant to name this place that is trying to rip you off. Although I do not understand the reluctance, that is your prerogative. I would not feel similar about protecting the identity of those who messed up my car, and are now shirking responsibility.
Perhaps a google search with the company name and the exact location would help in finding other folks that have had issues with this particular shop? That may give you some foothold on your claim that they messed up. perhaps check the Better Business Bureau?
Again, do as Wentwest outlined. He or she is a lawyer and former judge. They messed with the transmission without consent and it failed shortly after.
I agree, however, you must be 100% factual otherwise you will get sued.