For much chance of any help from the shop who did the “oil change”, given the amount of time before you reported the problem to them, you’re gonna need some hard evidence they in fact made a mistake. Either an oil analysis or at least expert testimony. Without that you don’t have much basis for a complaint. And even with hard evidence an error was made that ruined the transmission, the oil change shop will say first that you continued to drive the car when you knew there was a problem, and second, that there’s no proof it was them, and another shop may be the actual culprit.
In other words this is going to be tough sledding. If I had that problem I’d try to get at least some $$ in reimbursement from the shop in return for my release, then I’d just move on. Either replace the transmission or replace the vehicle. For a 2014, no question I’d replace it with a used transmission from another wrecked Forester.
Going forward, you probably are already aware of this, but obtaining oil changes from a tire franchise, not a good idea. Find a well recommended local inde shop that specializes in Subaru to service your vehicle.
Yep Yep and Yep
Just can’t let this slide; $8,620 was a shock to us- from beginning to end, since we know what happened and well understand how difficult it will be to prove.
We can only hope we get a Small Claims Magistrate /judge who see we are earnest and that we have little recourse or resources against a corporation that has already dismissed us 'little people.'
I will not mention the name of the corporation for two reasons:
1- to not hamper any possibility of getting reimbursement, even if just $5000 of it
but mostly:
2- This WAS a mistake- apparently there are a number of cases where these two plugs have been confused on this model.
We understand people make mistakes- especially young kids working at a ‘fast food of auto shops’. Our fault was for going to them- albeit to save time, money and a long drive to Subaru. We fault them only for not admitting it, which would have limited the damage to our car tremendously.
We did not ignore the problem- we just had no idea what it was (we looked into bad gas, clogged air/cabin filters, etc)
We were only slightly concerned at first - distracted by a major hurricane, followed by a family visit etc… We DID bring it to them to ask what it was. It wasn’t till we drove it for about a month that it became more noticeable and more of an issue…and even then, Subaru took two visits and over 6 days to finally find the problem
We can only be honest, state the facts, add in Subaru’s diagnosis and hope we will prevail.
George, this is not a criminal trial. The judge will look at the preponderance of evidence and decide if the plaintiff’s argument makes sense. The car owners are not car experts and often given great leeway and understanding in situations of mitigating harm. In addition, small claims courts often look down on big company lawyers trying to obfuscate or otherwise deflect blame based on their version of “hard facts”. My money is on the large corporation settling before the litigation starts or them losing if it comes before a judge.
First, a bit of advice about chain stores - never take your car to one. The managers all work on commission. They will always find something wrong with your car, and the mechanics are usually second rate as the pay at these places is quite low. With some cars such as Subarus it pays to take it to a dealer for service and repairs unless there is a specialist shop in your area. That said, here in the San Francisco area there are a few shops that are Subaru specialists, but I will still bring my car to a dealer if there is an issue because it’s fairly new and independent shops (I feel) need a few years to become familiar with newer cars. A former Subaru tech noted that the trans fluid plug can be mistaken for the oil plug. I found this to be very true. When I looked under my car before doing my first oil change I found that I was not sure which was which, So I watched a couple of You Tube videos done by people changing oil on Subarus, looked at engine diagrams on line, and studied the engine and trans for a good long while before removing the drain plug which on my Outback is accessed through an opening in the plastic skid pan that runs under the engine. The trans plug is clearly visible, so I can understand why someone unfamiliar with a Subaru could mistake it for the oil plug. Trans oil is not the only “special” fluid that Subarus use. I needed about a cup of coolant (antifreeze), so i went to the dealer. For a gallon of 50/50 mix (half water/half coolant). I paid $35.00 (which comes out to $70.00 for a gallon of 100% coolant), but I figured better to be safe than sorry. As to small claims court, you stand a good chance of winning if, as others have stated, you fully document everything.
Document everything as accurately and succinctly as you can.
Consider paying a lawyer to send a letter demanding satisfaction, but more likely than not they won’t get serious until they receive notice of an actual lawsuit. Try not to be intimidated, this is just how our system works.
From there you can go two legal routes: a) find a lawyer who will take the case - upon being served with a lawsuit the tire dealership may settle out of court or you obtain a judgement up to the amount you’re out (but not attorney fees, unless Florida is different from from mine). It is typical for attorneys to take 1/3 of the settlement leaving you with 2/3 - better than nothing.
Alternatively take the shop to small claims court and accept their limit, it’s simpler. Judges often are well disposed to claimants who present decent records (your receipt, the Subaru dealers findings in writing including a statement the proper fluid specification is critical, and their bill), your report to the tire shop and their response. It might be helpful to determine from the tire shop just how their analysis was determined, and whether they determined it was the correct fluid - demand their labs report (they could be lying, it may have been a “visual” test, who knows?) Good to have an independant fluid analysis, if it’s practical to get one. One thing you should have going in your favor is that you took it in for an oil change, but they drained the transmission and by hiding their mistake denied you the option of having it towed to a dealership for proper resolution.
When a coworker won a small claims judgement against a car dealership and they stalled on payment, he obtained the dealership’s payroll bank account number from a sympathetic employee and had the account “attached”. (If you go the payroll account route, have the process served on payday or the next as the accounts may be drawn to zero when all the paychecks are cashed). If they refuse payment an attorney may suggest better approaches for getting a handle on their assets.
Hi to the newer posters:
much of our ‘case’ is He Said She Said, regardless of receipts, Subaru’s diagnosis, etc…so a sympathetic judge is all we can hope for.
We spoke to the only local Consumer Lawyer who didn’t charge $200 for a consult- just to write a letter would start at $300…and if we hired him, he said a case like this would probably START at $3-4000…not counting all the subpoenas, etc
I spoke to 7 oil testing facilities (of the 14 I had contacted who bothered to return my calls/ or emails) around Florida and the US: all said CVT is ‘relatively new’,so there are no ASTM standards to compare against, so all they can do is advise percentage of metals found, and MAYBE that MIGHT differ from a regular transmission fluid, but no guarantees.
The person who inferred they tested was the insurance adjuster from the Tire Company’s ‘third party’ Claims Management Company. They did not give us ANY info other than that he had an ASCE certified technician state something to the effect that it seemed to be a similar fluid’.
Today I went to an Auto Parts store in walking distance to the Tire place today.
I asked’Do the technicians from Tire place ever come over to buy stuff.’? He said ‘All the time’. He wasn’t sure if they ever asked for/bought transmission fluid.
I checked- their CVT fluid is not the same as Subaru’s recommended fluid, and Subaru’s manual states we MUST go to them to add any fluid to the Forester’s sealed CVT system.
Headed out for the holidays’; will update everyone when it comes to a resolution
Got to say that no one thinks of free arbitration services given you by your local BBB, where experts are supposed to be assigned to your case. The other party does get to choose between “binding” and “non binding” = whether they must act upon a ruling or not. Once settled as best as can be …Beyond this is the importance of posting a REVIEW with BBB, Yelp and other spots.
A review should clearly show
the most likely cause of damage, cited by 3rd parties in the business & the coverup
the stonewalling
Then return to CarTalk to state the name of the company to warn us and those who spent so much time writing you back
I can relate
college driver “pulling a train” of left turners running a YIELD yellow light crashed my pristine car, State Farm fixed some but not a very expensive part = stonewalled, even in face of my bad reviews
trans is replaced. would changing fluid at dealer helped? they saw drip and bunged up drain plug and said it had been touched. wrong fluid ruined trans? did you get a new torque conv too? maybe it was torque conv issue to start with?
I feel for you, but I can’t imagine they’re going to fold and just pay and if it does actually go to court, the lawyer you spoke to is likely right, you’ll have way more into lawyer fees than the possible reimbursement. I’ve been screwed by dealerships, repair shops, and trusted mechanics. The only option you really have, do your own oil changes. That’s actually the only reason I started working on cars when I was a teenager, I didn’t trust anyone else to work on my cars and really couldn’t afford them anyway. Later, when I could afford it but didn’t have the time, I did have to have work done at shops and almost always at the very least overpaid. It’s a crappy field and the tire joint will never accept responsibility, even if you had proof…which is pretty impossible at this point. I, personally, would probably chalk this up to experience and let it go. I can’t see you winning but best of luck either way.
If this is a common problem, seems to me Subbie bears some responsibility for the bad design-not that they’ll do anything. My Acura has the trans and oil plug fairly close together but the oil plug is a standard hex bolt and the trans plug is an internal square that you insert a 3/8 socket wrench into. Plus the pan is stamped with “oil”, in English even. No way you can mix them up without being brain dead. GMs normally don’t have drain plugs. So really how hard would it be for Subbie to use a different shaped plug? Even so, that’s what you pay people for, to know the difference.
I see where you’re coming from, @bing, but there’s all sorts of things that dumb mechanics can do that could potentially have partial blame placed on the design of the car. You take a car to the shop because they’re supposed to be competent enough to know about the pratfalls of a given car. Now, we know that’s not true, especially for the chain goobers, but it’s not Subaru’s fault that OP unwittingly hired an idiot.
I mean, in many cars the oil filler cap is right next to the radiator cap, but that doesn’t mean it’s the manufacturer’s fault when someone puts antifreeze in the crankcase.
I’ve been in Small Claims Court (California) a couple of times. When I sued a private party, the judge split the difference between what I wanted and what the defendant wanted to pay. The judge also added my costs for filing and serving the papers to my award.
The second time was a large corporation based in Washington (state). They paid my claim before the case was to come up in court. I’m sure they decided it was cheaper to pay ($900 in my case) than to send someone to represent them in court.
You probably want to go through the other procedures recommended here in order to try to recover the full $8,000, but if those don’t work, Small Claims Court may be a good second choice.
As far as collecting from a large company, my observations over the years are different. I remember when a man won a few hundred dollars from a small airline quite a few years ago. His lawyer got an order from the Judge, and had the sheriff seize one of their airplanes. Seriously.
They paid in cash almost immediately.
I realize that will depend upon your state law, of course.
I hate to hear these stories where something very expensive gets screwed up due to lack of experience and the business won’t take responsibility for it.
But one thing that has concerned me about CVT’s is how expensive they are to get replaced. They are simpler and have far fewer parts so they should be cheaper than these new 8/10 speed automatics.
I might suggest I’ve found quite a number of horrors stories about replacing CVTs after having my wife’s 2013 Sentra’s transmission to fail, but we likely are yet to see how much these new 8/10 speed automatics would cost to replace. My own humble opinion is that automatics will last longer than CVTs as they are old proven technology, so likely we will not hear much cry about how much more expensive 8/10-speeds autos became.
