Motorists, cyclists, & pedestrians: Who's road-use rights should prevail?

General Discussion
41

As I posted earlier, our neighborhood has nice bike lanes running through it on both sides of the road which is a divided roadway. Our subdivision is bisected by this divided roadway with half of the homes on one side and the other half on the other side. There are no homes that directly access this road; all homes are on loops or cul de sacs.

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The total paved area in each lane, left to right, is 22-feet and the bike lanes (both sides) are 6-feet wide. This road is not a shortcut to anywhere and usually only the residents travel it. The Speed Limit on this road is 25-MPH and there is an “enhanced fine” for speeding here…

However, I have written that “power bike riders;” all who think they are in the tour de France race through here at up to 35-MPH and when they come through on a weekend, they often come in mobs of 10 to 20 strong.

As you can see there are no sidewalks and the walkers (both young and old), joggers, pet walkers, and young couples pushing baby strollers, all use the bike lanes.

It is not uncommon to have these bike riders scream and curse at anyone who dares to walk in the bike lanes and they do not care if it’s young or old… It’s the mob mentality…

So I say to you if you take some action against the “mob” to get their attention, such as with an air horn, do you really think it is not going to escalate to something physical or worse? The Sheriff’s Department has run patrols, but our neighborhood is not the only one they hit…

As I also wrote, I wish I had the “Rolling Coal” feature on my diesel truck to slowly pass them and cover them is a sooty, oily mess, all over those expensive riding outfits…

42

We don’t have any shared bike lanes that I’ve noticed in our little town. We do have bike and hiking trails though so not hard to find a place to ride. Here’s the thing though, I and the other neighbors on my road, had to pay for the rod when we bought lots, and had to pay again for the overlay. Every gallon of gas I buy goes to pay for the roads I use. Folks on bikes don’t pay anything. I don’t deny they should be able to use them, but just think the main purpose of vehicle travel should not be infringed on.

43

Thanks for the photo. Definitely looks like a road I’d enjoy to bicycle on. If a pedestrian was using the bike lane I’d either move into the road lane to pass them if no cars, or would stop and wait for the pedestrians to pass by. Do the pedestrians walk in the opposite direction of the bicycle riders, facing traffic? They should imo. That would make it safer for all the road’s users. .

I see that here too, groups or just individuals. For some unexplained reason these folks believe if they wear the cycle-racing kit, the rules of the road don’t apply. Not uncommon to see groups of ten go directly through red lights w/out even slowing down. There was one location where this was really common, and the Sheriff’s dept took notice about a year ago. I haven’t seen this sort of rude behavior at that intersection since. I don’t see the kitted-up riders there either, they must be using a different road.

44

The main roadway through our subdivision is just about 1-1/2 miles long and if you were to walk, jog, or bike all the cul de sacs and loops, it would be just over 8-miles. The Bike path is only on the main roadway.

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As for pedestrians walking or jogging, they seem to not care which side of the road they are on unless it is hot… I personally will only walk facing traffic. As for bike riding, I always ride with the traffic flow, but looking behind me often…

The roadway meanders, snakelike, through the subdivision going North and South and East and West, so the folks who are trying to avoid the hottest part of the day may cross back and forth, from one side of the road to the other to “Hug Shade…”

Since most folks using the bike path for any reason live here, they generally respect the rights of others, as we are all neighbors and generally know folks from all over the subdivision.

Another point, our subdivision is managed by volunteers.

We do not have a Managing company that costs many thousands of dollars. And our HOA fees are only about $200 a year.

Since we control our subdivision, we have quarterly member’s meeting where you can voice issues like abuse or safety issues with walking or biking.

It seems that 95% of our problems are caused by “interlopers;” we generally get along fine…

45

That is very similar to where I live. Difference is the main road doesn’t have any sidewalks or a bike path. You ride at your own risk. And over half the dead-end roads are NOT paved.

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46

That story about cycling in Italy gave me pause about my upcoming two-week trip there. I’ve been researching cycling safety tips and logistics. Anyone here actually tried cycling in Italy? I’d love to hear some firsthand experiences. One article offered helpful cycling advice for navigating Italy: https://www.tourissimo.travel/blog/safety-tips-for-cycling-in-italy

I’ve also been reading up on general travel stuff, like this guide on Florence (https://gowithguide.com/blog/tourism-in-florence-statistics-2023-the-ultimate-guide-5219). Florence seems pretty small, but I’m thinking biking in the city might be a nightmare with all the traffic. Maybe I’ll stick to walking there. The countryside could be a different story though.

What do you guys think? Is cycling in Italy a good idea, or should I just stick to trains and my own two feet?

47

Saw a lot of speedy mopeds but not many bicycles. They drive like crazy. I’d stick to public transit or taxis myself but be ready for instantaneous strikes. Oh yeah, depending on where, watch out for thieves working in pairs. Most uncomfortable place I waited in was the Naples airport. Take tours with other travelers.

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48

I was stationed in Italy with the NATO Forces, although it has been years, but I am sure these warnings are still valid…

Pickpockets prey on tourist at bus stations, train stations, tourist traps, etc… It seems that folks like Americans, Canadians, and Brits seem to stand out like beacons. Probably the way they dress. Google the street scenes and you’ll see what I mean… Italian adults tend to dress more formally than your typical tourist (shorts, t-shirts, baseball caps, etc…).

Folks who carry a wallet in their pants pockets should do one of two things, carry it in your front pocket if your pants are so equipped, or wrap several rubber bands around the wallet, to make difficult to slip or slide the wallet out of the pocket.

Folks who carry handbags should not carry it slung over one shoulder, but rather slung around the neck and shoulder (cross body) with the purse in the front. Thieves on mopeds will drive down the sidewalk, and the passenger will grab the strap of the bag and if the strap does not break, the bag is pulled off the shoulder with the victim yanked to the ground.

If you rent a car and buy souvenirs put it in the trunk when you return from shopping before going to your next destination, not after you arrive and then think you had better put the items out of sight, it’s too late now… Do not expect a blanket tossed over your items in the back seat to dissuade a thief. And Do Not leave anything of value visible in the car (phone, GPS, radios, etc…).

When driving, do not put your bags or purse on the front seat next to you. Thieves on mopeds carry hammers and as they pull up next to you, they smash the window and as you recoil from the flying glass, they snatch whatever is on the front seat. And then they take off, through traffic, over sidewalks, down alleys, and you will never catch them… they worry if the items are of any value after they get away.

And above all remember you are in their country and when you speak to them, adding an “el” in front of a word or an “o” afterwards does not make the expression Italian, such as “How Much-o el-cost-o…”

On a finer point, learning a few key Italian expressions, like “Where is the restroom?” (Dov’è la toilette), does you no good if you do not understand the answer, “È in fondo al corridoio alla tua destra.” (It is down the hall on your right side)… So, when you stare blankly at the Italian, do not be surprised that they take you by the hand and lead you to the door… L :grinning: L . . .

I studied French and Spanish in school and Italian in college, so I am able to ramble around pretty much and my experience in various foreign countries taught me that the locals often speak more than one language as they often travel around Europe the way many American travel around the States.

My old French teacher had a poster up on the wall that read, “They who only know one language, looks at the world with only one eye…”

So, open both eyes, enjoy the Italian culture and remember, like Dorothy in “The Wizard of Oz,” you are not in Kansas anymore…

“Benvenuti in Italia” (Welcome to Italy…)

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49

The most blatant attempt at pickpocketing that I ever experienced was outside Paris’s Notre Dame Cathedral. While I was sitting on a bench, of group of pre-teen girls (Roma, I think…) came along with a very large sheet of oaktag or similar cardboard, with various magazine photos glued to the cardboard.

My meager French language ability didn’t allow me to understand what they were saying, but they placed the cardboard on my lap, and then one of them tried reaching under it to try to go through my pockets. I repeatedly pushed her hand away, but they were undeterred and kept trying the same tactic that I had already noticed and repelled.

Only by walking away was I able to get them to stop their bizarrely amateurish attempts at pickpocketing.

50

Which post number are you referring to?

A tech co-worker of mine enjoyed many Italian cycling trips without any serious incidents. He kept going back year after year, so it must be pretty fun. He said there’s not as many clearly marked bike lanes there, and cars are frequently parked on the side of the road, so he had to be very mindful when he had to pull into the traffic lanes to pass the parked cars.

For safety reasons most of his Italian cycling was done on less-travelled mountain roads, not in the city-scapes or on busy commercial streets.

As far as pick-pockets, I never had any trouble with that on my holiday and business trips other Euro-zones. In tourist areas sometimes I had to leave particular areas b/c of the interest I seemed to be attracting. About the only serious problem, in Paris a young shoe-less woman sat down next to me as I was eating breakfast, and she started snacking off my plate … lol … I told her if she’d wait outside I buy her breakfast. She said her boyfriend was hungry too, so I bought both of them breakfast.

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51

All I can say is depending on the city, our group would often split up so that there would be someone watching from behind for pick pockets. They were so good you had to watch closely.

52

[/quote]
Which post number are you referring to?
[/quote]

Hi, @George_San_Jose1, sorry for any confusion but I was referring to your #1 post in the thread about the incident in UK, but somehow typed Italy in there because I was asking for opinions on my upcoming trip to Italy.

[/quote]
A tech co-worker of mine enjoyed many Italian cycling trips without any serious incidents. He kept going back year after year, so it must be pretty fun. He said there’s not as many clearly marked bike lanes there, and cars are frequently parked on the side of the road, so he had to be very mindful when he had to pull into the traffic lanes to pass the parked cars.

For safety reasons most of his Italian cycling was done on less-travelled mountain roads, not in the city-scapes or on busy commercial streets.

As far as pick-pockets, I never had any trouble with that on my holiday and business trips other Euro-zones. In tourist areas sometimes I had to leave particular areas b/c of the interest I seemed to be attracting. About the only serious problem, in Paris a young shoe-less woman sat down next to me as I was eating breakfast, and she started snacking off my plate … lol … I told her if she’d wait outside I buy her breakfast. She said her boyfriend was hungry too, so I bought both of them breakfast.
[/quote]

Thanks for sharing your friend’s experience cycling in Italy. It’s good to hear that sticking to less traveled mountain roads helped avoid many traffic issues and incidents. Paying attention when passing parked cars also seems like important advice. It’s a shame about the lack of clearly marked bike lanes in some places. I’ll have to factor that in as I’m planning my routes.

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53

One of my brothers was in Italy a few years ago and some jerk tried to pickpocket him. He caught him doing it and broke his arm. Police show up and arrested the guy and thanked my brother. In the US he might have been arrested for assault.

54

While I was crossing the street at Piazza della Repubblica in Rome, a kid (probably about 14 years old) tried to pickpocket me. He was skinny, so I was easily able to hurl him across the street, and he didn’t attempt anything after that. (I was MUCH younger, then…)

I have no idea whether I injured him, but I really didn’t care about that possibility. No cops in sight, so both he and I escaped without any intervention by law enforcement personnel.

55

You want to bicycle around Italy? Last time I was in Naples, the traffic cops used uzis to direct traffic. Still want to bike around Italy. BTW, I love Italy and will go back if I get a chance.

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56

Took a taxi from the airport into Rome. My bil paid with a 50 euro bill. As quick as a wink the guy had pocketed it and held up a 20. He finally gave in. My bil is a cpa and never miscounts money. So yeah be on guard.

I still don’t know if I got pick pocketed or just lost a 50 in Paris after a taxi ride. Maybe I never had it but seems like I was 50 short somehow, and I usually have my hands in my pockets.

57

I’m glad your brother caught the thief while doing the act and that the police responded reasonably, @MikeInNH. I’d be too worried to take public transport in Italy now. I think I’d stick to places that are not so popular to tourists.

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Thanks for the advice on public transit and group tours, @bing! I’ll definitely consider those options for certain parts of my trip. I think I might still attempt cycling in the countryside to explore the scenic routes at my own pace.

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Generally speaking, that is good advice, but on one of my trips to Italy, I was in a group, and one of the women in the group had her US passport stolen from her purse while she was walking around in St. Peter’s Basilica. One must have his/her wits about them at all times, no matter where you might be.

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60

That’s a valuable insight, @VDCdriver. Being vigilant and mindful of your environment is crucial, particularly in densely populated tourist spots. It’s unfortunate that such incidents can taint our memories of otherwise stunning locations.