“You people that say there is no difference in a CPO car and a plain Jane used car just havent been there”
How about if we agree that this CPO car was no different from a “plain Jane” used car?
Any program–including a manufacturer’s CPO program–is only as good as the people who are involved in administering/managing it. And, whoever was administering/managing the CPO program at this dealership is either extremely unscrupulous or a screw-up.
Ideally, a CPO car should absolutely be superior to one that is not. However, the OP’s experience helps to prove that few things in life are absolutes.
Lets try to put a “honest mistake” face on this situation. Perhaps a salesman sold a car that needed a cat. NOW. so he had a mechanic pull the cat. off your car (yet unsold) and put a test pipe in. Now your salesman knows your prospective Volvo has just passed the CPO program but doesn’t know the cat. has been appropriated,you test drive and the “check engine” light comes on,your salesman knows nothing big is wrong with the car so he assures you all is well.
Foreman tells mechanic to turn off check engine light on car he just CPOed (knowing it cant be a big deal). Your car gets delivered to you before the parts borrowing salesman has a chance to get a cat put back on.
This is not anymore far fetched than a Dealer knowingly selling a car with a test pipe in place instead of a cat.
It just shows us that certified means nothing. A checklist is the only thing that gets better if it is used. The dealer people are not mystified, just clueless. They aren’t allowed to sell you a car without a cat. It’s federal law. This also shows that nobody there really evaluates cars at trade-in; thay just make low offers.
Hi - the buyer here again. All possible, maybe, but I don’t think this is what happened in this case. When I made the appointment with this dealer to test drive a C30, I was planning to just go and make a connection with them for the future, meet this salesman and form a relationship so they could look out for what I wanted. They didn’t have this 2008 in yet when I made the appointment; they told me they had one new 2009 on the lot (automatic) for me to drive, so when I went up, that’s all I was expecting. I wanted them to see me and know that I was serious about buying from this particular dealer because of the family relationship/connection and that I would wait for the right C30 (a standard) to come along. I knew that the standard C30 cars are hard to find so I was willing to wait. So I went up for the appointment, to drive the 2009, knowing I wouldn’t buy it (they knew this too - that I wanted a standard - I was clear). When I drove in the lot, I saw the 2008 silver C30 and said, “What’s that?” and the salesman told me it was a standard which had just arrived the night before from an auction and no one had taken a look at it yet. I was the first one to drive it. I committed to it that day (this was a Tuesday). I arrived back on Friday, turned in my Honda, wrote my check, arranged for financing, and I drove the C30 home. I would certainly have waited another few days for a catalytic converter to be installed. I just don’t think it ever went on the lift.
I’ve read all the posts on this thread. Yes, there is a family relationship and the dealer is obligated to put on a new cat and make the car “right” for delivery. And I’m sure they will.
Yet, it was a mistake to put the car up for sale with a CEL on and then find there is no cat on the car. A lack of competance, at best. Then there is the car; a Volvo C30. Sorry but this in not a good choice of car. Volvo’s are very expensive to repair, and they need repairs often. You will find owning this car and driving it for 150K is an entirely different experience than you previous Honda Oydessy.
I’d recommend that you negate the deal now and NOT take delivery of this Volvo. It has a “checkered” past and I feel it will be a nightmare for you in the future. Spend the same money and buy a new car from the same dealer. Stick with mom’s program and buy a Toyota Camry or Corolla if you want a dependable, reliable, car that requires minimal repairs.
If you keep the Volvo you need to budget at least $1,500 a year for repairs.
Oh, they didn’t miss it. They just ignored it. An OEM cat is not cheap, they typically cost over $1000. The dealership just didn’t want to spend the money to replace it. The dealership just reset the light and hoped that it wouldn’t go off again until you took the car home, once you take delivery it gives them just a little more ground to stand on, since they can make up some BS story about how you might’ve damaged the car and that the issue isn’t covered under any warranty. Then they’ll grudgingly agree to meet you half-way on the repair costs, which saves them a couple hundred bucks.
“Dealers don’t “sniff” cars anymore,its all through the OBD2 system”
I am well aware of that.
For that matter, state emissions inspections also use the OBD2 system–at least they do in my part of the country.
So, since a car with an illuminated CEL (or a recently extinguished CEL) will not pass the OBD2 emissions test, how could this car have passed an emissions test? Only by ignoring the CEL totally (or by turning it off and hoping for the best), or by skipping what would seem to be a normal diagnostic procedure, would this car have been put on the lot for sale as a CPO vehicle.
There is no way that this can possibly reflect on the dealership in anything other than a negative way. And, if this dealership performs a CPO examination that is so slip-shod, I have to assume that there are some others that are similarly negligent. The problem is that nobody knows how diligent every dealership is with their CPO regimen.
When a dealership does not really perform the tests and examinations that they are supposed to do in order to certify a used car, then there really is not very much difference between that car and a “plain Jane” used car.
Like I stated earlier,inform Volvo that you bought a car that was included in Volvos CPO program and it did not have a catalytic converter on it.
The Dealer can lose its privlidge of participating in the CPO program over this and they would not like this a true CPO cars bring a premeium.
I am at the point where it would have to be proven to me that the car was in Volvos CPO program and not just the Dealers “101 point checkout” program. They have a lot to lose getting kicked out of the program.
You have a folder signed by the mechanic,the Service manager and the cars registration number in the CPO program? Does this folder list all the specs on tires,brakes,and lists that all on the car works,including dates or documentation that all required services have been done or are not yet required to be done?
For my CPO cars I would (as required) include a printout of all failure codes present when the car came in and a printout showing all codes cleared and how the clearing was achieved. Kinda hard to explain a “low cat. efficiency” code with just a clear. I could see my manager asking how I dealt with that code and when I said I just cleared it I dont’t think that would have been good enough.
Actually, another regular poster (don’t remember who it was) used that picture and I saved it for another occasion. I can’t take credit for it.
To the OP, I didn’t mean to be mean about this, but if you listen to Tom and Ray’s Car Talk on the radio, or read their newspaper column, you might notice they have been advising their listeners and readers to get any used car checked out before they buy. I don’t care how much you trust the salesperson or the dealership, this is just the price of buying used, which is almost often more financially sound than buying new, even with $100-$200 being paid to an independent (of the sale and of the dealership) mechanic. I commend you for trusting humanity, but few people consider used car salesmen a part of humanity.
Even if this advice doesn’t help you now, it will help you next time you shop for a used car. After all, your mechanic would have likely spotted the missing catalytic converter and you could have avoided this problem ahead of time.
I encourage you to buy Tom and Ray’s book set at http://www.shamelesscommerce.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BOOKLET+SET which includes “Should I Buy, Lease, or Steal My Next Car?,” “How to Buy a Great Used Car,” and “10 Ways You May Be Ruining Your Car (Without Even Knowing It!).” I learned a lot from these books, and no, I don’t work for Car Talk.
After reading all the posts by the buyer and after remembering some of my own postings, I have to restate one thing I like to say. “If anything strange happens on the test drive, don’t buy the car.” While the check engine light seems like an obvious red flag, I’m also talking about strange engine or transmission events, as well as vibrations and strange steering.
“We’ll take care of it” should negate just about all sales when the check engine light comes on. At that point, nobody knows just exactly what exactly it is that will have to be be “taken care of”.
Then, there is the benefit of having another mechanic put the car on a lift and at least have a look.
There is no way that the car buyer can tell if a dealer actually certifies anything. So, congratulations to you techs who do actual “certifications”.
Here is a BMW CPO checklist. BMW extends the factory warranty outto 100K so they want to be sure what they are dealing with. A additional 50K Factory warranty is nothing to ignore. Volvos program probably is similar.
I ask the OP do you have a document like the BMW CPO checklist for your car? It has been kind of quiet. Has anyone ever performed a inspection of the depth indicated by the BMW CPO inspection list,I have, probably a hundred times.
BMW CPO cars are special cars,not all are accepted and you pay dearly for a CPO BMW. Do you think your “mom and pop” garage would take the time to check all the items? Do you think they are capable of it?
BMW pioneered the CPO concept and other makes have followed,just like its always been,BMW leads and the others follow.
Its clear to me that the OP figured out she wasn’t dealing with a real CPO car. One look at the requirements for BMW CPO and she realised that all she got was a Dealers so/so inspection.
Wow i bet they do feel horrible that they missed it,that is very strange though for a 2008 not to have catalytic on it,also please make sure they change the 02 sensors too when putting it on the car,remember without catalytic the o2 may have been damaged as a result,also they can find a wrecked car to get a catalytic from to send back to volvo.
You think the Dealer is now going to commit warranty fraud and send a converter to Volvo from a different car seeking warranty coverage.
So this Dealer commits fraud with Volvos CPO program and then commits fraud with Volvos warranty parts program,I don’t think so. They probably will just eat this one as being in hot water over the botched CPO (thats if it even was a CPO) job is probably enough.
They woud be in violation of CPO guidelines to install a non-OEM converter.
Gentelmen I think the OP has left the building on this one.
Was just going through some of the questions in this forum (new here) and this one sticks out.
I have been in/car business over 40 years and for past 14 years I have been doing pre purchase inspections,appraisals, mechanical breakdown inspections and Certified Pre Owned inspections for a number of manufactures.
From what I see here the car was not an actual certified preowned vehicle, as the guidelines are not in line with what is needed to have the car Certified. There should have been a folder with all the documentation in it,"Carfax report,120-150 point inspection report, dealer repair order, Vin status inquiry, interactive cetification report etc, differnt makes have slightly different paperwork. I do Honda, Acura, Porsche, Mercedes Benz, Lexus and before the take over GM. All of this has to be in order and sent to car company before the car can be certified.
If a tech had properly done the certified inspection the converter should have jumped out at him as soon as he started looking under the car.
I don’t know if Volvo has people like me check out their dealers, if not sounds like they need to start the program. This keeps the dealers straight, as a lot of them put the stickers on and charge for a certified vehicle but sell it as a substandard vehicle. This customer should check with Volvo and tell them what happened and get the dealer in line. This is what hurts the Automotive sales and repair business. And they are hurting enough right now. “Cash For Clunkers” what a joke, it will bury some dealers in the months to come