The deer in Maine…they are much smarter. They wait until the road clears, check both ways and quickly trot to the other side. Now the moose.lthey are number then a pounded thumb. Just because they are big, they think every one will stop for them.
^But do they know enough to cross at the “deer crossing” signs? And why do we tell 'em to cross there anyways?
No, but it’s not their fault. The signs are written in English. That doesn’t make them dumb, just illiterate.
When a deer jumps out of the woods when it is wet and cold out you will definitely appreciate the extra margin of safety.
Traveling down my rural road at 30mph the difference between winter tires and good all-season is measured in single digit inches. If it can be measured at all. Usually happens 1-2 times a year.
Right on! A number of years ago I ran into a deer on the Alaska Highway, could not stop in time and damaged the front fender of my rental Chevy with “all season” tires.
The deer was injured, but escaped into the forest.
Filling out the accident report was fun, since it seemed to have been concocted by someone in New York. I had to describe the “escaping” other party, and I wrote that he(she) had large brown eyes, very agile, unshaven, and seemed to have good wood lore capabilities.
The difference between winter tires and good all season is measured in single digit inches.
True…5 to 10 years ago. Depending upon the tires compared.
Not anymore and the advantages are increasing with each new winter tire model that comes out.
http://www.castlegarnews.com/news/229125141.html
@Docnick We hve had run ins with deer and other animals on four separate occasions that required insurance intervention. At no time was I ever able to get the second party to stop and leave their insurance card number and in the two cases they were killed, they were never carrying their cards.; ID or insurance.
The all-season rubber took 16-18 percent more real estate to stop, compared to the winter tires. And the summer tires? More than 120 percent longer.
@dagosa, I think that All-Seasons, based upon that metric, are entirely acceptable choices for folks who don’t have heaps of snow over winter…say, not in the lake-effect zone and south of Albany. That’s a lot of people!
I run snows (rear axle) on my F150. I run all-seasons on my Cobalt. If I ever go and buy snows for my Cobalt, it’ll be because I decided to splurge on a good set of summer performance tires, to see what effect they have on handling…NOT because all-seasons aren’t “good enough.”
There’s more than a 18% difference in stopping and skidpad between different models of cars, so saying that’s “unacceptable” is saying that any car that pulls 18% less skidpad than a Corvette is “unsafe.” (BTW, many of those “lesser” cars have fewer single-car-loss-of-control accidents than the 'Vette, suggesting grip is not the be-all, end-all it’s being made out to be.)
I think the best argument for snows is that they ultimately save money by letting you run your 3-season tires down to the wear bars. Plenty of people don’t want to be bothered switching, and–as long as their decision is borne out by a safe driving record–I think that’s entirely acceptable. Put some “Jack of all trades, King of none” all-seasons on and hit the road!
I think all seasons based upon that metric are entirely acceptable choices…plenty of people don’t want to be bothered switching
Absolutely ! That all works. No one is ever saying that people must or even should use snow tires. I think most of the debate has been around what the valid reasons for not using them are. As you state, it isn’t a performance or economics as it has been in the past, reason any more to avoid them. It’s convenience. It’s like buying a good pair of sneakers or walking shoes and wearing them all the time instead of switching shoes according to the task and activity. No more and no less. No more no less if you are the only one at risk…which brings up another point.
Like many things in a capitalistic society, good business practices have the deciding vote…as it should in these matters. Perhaps it will be more common place for insurance companies to decide to reduce rates for those who use them on their cars in some areas.
At some point, this debate could go away easily when tire manufactures sell year round tires with the snow flake emblem performance. Some AT tires I believe are there now. So, if you have a larger SUV or most any truck, you have that option already.
I had a Sidekick with BFG AT tires and they were outstanding in snow and pretty decent on ice. They were a little noisy the rest of the year…but I didn’t really mind in a car that was loud otherwise and couldn’t travel safely over 65 mph.
The deer here in Indiana are very athletic. We have as state park that was over run with deer and destroying the foliage. Our Department of Natural Resources wanted to bring in sharpshooters to thin the deer herd, but the bleeding hearts threw,a fit. It was then decided to bring in some bears to scare off the deer. It didn’t work. The deer took the bears by 3 touchdowns.
Back to winter tires. Last winter there was a Buick Century that had slipped off the road in front of my house and,had to be pulled out with a wrecker. The very next day the same Buick was again off the road in front of my house. The young woman who owned the car was really upset and,said the Buick was the worst car she ever owned and wouldn’t stay on the road when there was ice or snow. I looked at her tires,and they were almost worn out. I suggested new,winter tires. She,asked what,tires,had to do with the problem. I finally explained it in terms she,would understand. I said “Would,you wear your summer sandals,in the winter on the snow?”
@MikeInNH is correct that winter tires are not needed in NH except some select areas unless you like to wait a bit for plows/sanders/salters to get out. We live in tourist state(largest industry) and they presume lowest common denominates of tires to get people to the ski areas and spending money everywhere.
However his statement of going 80MPH when it is 10 degrees is an obvious lack of winter tire experience. They do in fact offer(I owned one set over 7 years) in normal winter driving superior stopping and turning abilities. You pretty much can go speed limit on majority of conditions. However the all-season drivers slow traffic down(myself included currently)…
I noticed up in Northern VT off beaten path near Jay Peak ski area drivers with FWD,AWD, 4wd, RWD all drive at normal speed on 3-5" deep roads and around corners. Why they all have winter tires. I felt like a hazard amongst locals struggling along with my all-seasons on my wife’s Subaru. It would go just not steer well! It is a sign you have wrong tires when UPS truck and school bus have chains!
Careful selection of all-seasons though can make winter driving better. They are not created equal for winter traction.
However his statement of going 80MPH when it is 10 degrees is an obvious lack of winter tire experience. They do in fact offer(I owned one set over 7 years) in normal winter driving superior stopping and turning abilities.
And you’d be totally wrong. I have many of thousands of miles driving with winter tires…probably a lot more then you do. Also…reread my post…I in fact did say they probably offer better performance when it’s 10 degrees.
I noticed up in Northern VT off beaten path near Jay Peak ski area drivers with FWD,AWD, 4wd, RWD all drive at normal speed on 3-5" deep roads and around corners. Why they all have winter tires
That’s why when we go to Jay Peak (or any other ski resort) we bring my AWD Highlander or my 4runner with good AT tires. All season tires are not suitable in that environment.
My winter driving is 25 years overall. Thankfully limited to only 500k in a lifetime. Only 7 years on real winter tires coupled to a WRX.
I disagree on all-seasons not suitable for ski resorts. The main access road and road from highway are excessively salted and plowed compared to any other roads. Ski areas make a point of making them accessible to all as it is an expensive enough sport as is. I have even seen them put their staff into parking lots when excessive snow helping push vehicles with lessor traction or drivelines. Beyond the excessive sanding and salting that occurs. Take a side road and realize the difference.
I disagree on all-seasons not suitable for ski resorts. The main access road and road from highway are excessively salted and plowed compared to any other roads
The problems with all-season’s in the white mountains is the amount of snow. Been there many times when snow storms have blocked some people from leaving. Earlier this season on the day we were leaving there was a good storm going on. Just took it slow in awd. There were many vehicles off the road. But we had to make it back that night - which we did.
My winter driving is 25 years overall. Thankfully limited to only 500k in a lifetime.
Had my drivers license for 45+ years and except for the year in Nam I’ve drven in snow every year. Grew up in upstate NY were our small town averaged over 200" snow per year. Most of that was lake effect snow. From October thru March you drive on snow most of the time. Rarely are you ever driving on dry or even wet road. Those small towns can’t afford the thousands of tons of salt needed to keep the roads clear.
Driving 80 plus mph in real cold weather is a foriegn concept to me. Both my cars recomend you not drive over 75’mph on snow tires. Though I use snow tires always in the winter, I heed that advice. I only drive higher speeds on non winter tires on dry roads and not in very cold weather. I don’t feel that any tire that is designed to minimize some rubber to road surface contact which winter treads do, is as good as performance tires at higher speeds.
So, even though winter tires may be better for very cold 10 degree conditons…once you get to 80 mph, it isn’t enough better to make it a good tire choice for most average cars, especially my SUVS. Both all seasons and winter tires at 10 degrees F would be too lacking for me but for different reasons. Even though winter tires brake well, the handling with the deeper treads gets too " sloppy" for me at 80 mph.
Just to bring up an older point. It’s one reason I don’t agree with 80 mph speed limits in winter anywhere. How many really have the right tires t do it ?
Learned winter driving in north eastern Ohio at just sixteen as I was learning to drive in the first place. ( learned trailers too at the very beginning )
Dad taught me about feeling the amount of accelerator or brake ‘‘with your big toe.’’ and , though I moved to New Mexico shortly thereafter, that driving style has served me well during our rare but sure enough once in a while snows out here at 6500 ft.
I can tell the folks who are driving with their whole foot plopped up on the pedals with their whole leg and not just the ‘‘big toe’’ area of the foot.
My wife too, can not seem to get the ‘‘feel’’ of the pedal pressure even after all these years. She telsl me ‘’ YOU know how to drive in this crap, take me to work.’’ ( or pick up or go get something )
She even askes ''how do you know this after all these years of not having big winters to drive in ? ''
All I can say is it’s just stuck in there kinda like saying my left hand knows more music that I do when I pick up my bass guitar…it’s just in there.
I ordered on line snow tires they work well. To save money on installation, I drove them all summer. I am selling my all season tires.
Great, someone revives an old thread with nonsense . Thanks.
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Apparently you’re not aware that winter tires wear out quickly in warm temperatures because the rubber compound is designed to be soft in cold temperatures. Don’t be surprised when you need to replace them far earlier than expected, costing you more than the mounting fees that you’ve avoided.
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So, if I use winter tires for track day, will they stick to the track better than all seasons?
The cheapest name brand snow tires run circles around most of the more expensive all season tires on ice and snow. As long as your average temps are in the fifties or below, your winter tires wear fine. Late to mid fall changeovers work fine.