Liability of sludge in engine

Maintenance/Repairs
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…hope to find some creative thoughts on what could have happened to make it this bad.

I don’t have to be creative to give you some good thoughts on this issue. (A) Too many miles passed between oil changes. That’s why the oil sludged. (B) A low oil level can accelerate sludging. All engines burn at least a little oil, and when the level gets lower, it makes things worse.

Let’s not talk about who is at fault. From afar, getting only one side of the story, it’s anyone’s guess, so let’s not quibble about that.

This forum is not “mainstreet America.” It is a collection of car enthusiasts, mechanics, engineers, and other interested parties; far from a random sample of Americans. Perhaps you should look elsewhere outside the internet in the real world for what mainstreet America thinks.

Let’s talk about how you can avoid this from happening with your next vehicle, or this one if it gets repaired or it gets a new engine. I know you are tired of hearing it, but I insist. I will attempt to be as non-judgmental as possible.

*The two most important words to remember are “dip stick.” No matter how many bells and whistles your car has, you still need to use the dip stick on a regular basis. If your car has one, there is no substitute for the dip stick. Some cars have an oil level gauge instead of a dip stick, but I don’t think that applies to your vehicle.

*No “quick lube” employee should be giving you advice, even the owner’s best employee. These businesses do not employ real mechanics. They have a reputation for ripping people off, giving bad advice, and screwing up their cars. If you want to take good care of your car, find a highly qualified mechanic who understands how every piece of your car works, or better yet, since you are a “hands on” type of person, learn how to do your own oil changes.

*Ignore the oil life monitor. This is relatively new technology, and I wouldn’t necessarily trust it until they have had a chance to work out the bugs. In addition, many systems don’t actually monitor the condition of the oil. They measure RPMs and other factors that affect oil life. Changing your oil every 5,000 miles is a good way to protect your engine, or better yet, change the oil when the monitor says the oil is at 50%. Don’t wait for it to get too low.

*I will say it again since it bears repeating. Get into the habit of checking the oil routinely by opening the hood and using the dip stick. I can’t stress this enough … seriously.

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So was the oil level ever checked between changes?

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Somehow, that is the only detail that the OP has steadfastly refused to provide, despite repeated requests. Can we read anything into her silence on that issue?

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I did check the oil at 6500 (Walmart) with a tire check and actually finding receipts where a nail in one tire again at a local tire place and remember asking them to check the fluids. I also asked the rare times when I used stations that “service” to check my fluids which is a station in Richmond Va on Forest HIll Ave when I got gas.

I have had about 3 used cars in my life statring with my car use life at 16 when I bought my first car for $600. It was a Chevelle 66. I checked the oil with a dip stick. Next car was a used hev Impala 72. The next 10 cars were brand new and I traded at 50-60,000 since I was in sales andgoing through cars in 1 1/2 years due to mileage. I guess I have been lucky thus far having my oil checked by someone else when I was working all those years.
It is not that I did not check the oil between the full oil changes because in all my cars I did. I do not thinkl this traverse has that old fashion oil lamp light like the genie in a jar type symbol. I think the symbol is the OLM and it does not come on, it is triggered by the check engine light and when it came on I checked the oil which is what the manual says to do. Then I changed it.

IN all the new cars I have had, I have never had this problem. I have had about 10 brand new cars in the last 20 years and 7 in the last 10 years trading all when about 50-60,000 miles. Also the traverse oil dip stick is way too short and a little hard to get to. Also have read on forums how the oil reading of the dipstick has been misleading and thqat many are showing 50% life after 3,000 miles. If that is the case, I would have relied on the check engine light to show me there was a problem and then I would have gone to my OLM and checked my oil. If I did not know the oil was running low or that this traverse is having an issue with the OLM and using oil abnormally I still would have gone to the OLM and checked it. I would have looked at what the OLM said and decided that I had done all I needed to do and if the OLM said 50% and not time to change oil and the engine light had come on, then I would have known something was wrong other than the oil. But the CEL never came on until it corresponded with low oil life and then I changed the oil. I was shown that when I bought the car that this car had a great feature to check the oil life and tire pressure on each tire and so forth with the info section pushn button.

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Don’t read anything into silence on the check oil between oil changes. I am not trying to be misleading in any of this. If I need to changed my maintenance habits, goodness I will. I want to figure out what I did not do based on what I was told I needed to do. And it is quite clear that many of you said the oil needed to be checked on a regular basis by using the dip stick method. I am glad I have gotten so many responses here from experts (I know I have refered to experts at various places in my reposnses here) but you all have nothing to lose to respons here and I appreciate it.

I will check my oil with a dipstick in the future religiously but I also did the math and if I drive 40,000 a year in a year and a half and divide that by 18 months you get about 2,211 miles a week. I do realize that 3,000 miles between oil changes is a minimum and that about 5,000 is a good figure but that also means I am pulling that hard to get to oil dipstick out every 7 days with 3,000 miles and I do not know of anybody that does that even mechanics. I got the synth to extend that. I know some of you were laughing at the 12,000 miles but I was serious when I said I trusted the car to let me know with all that Cevrolet advertised the OLM and other features and car sales force discussed how easy it was to check the oil to maintain this car.

I do think this is a lesson to all that buys cars to look under the hood male or female and see where the oil dip stick is and ask if it has one if you cannot find it. In cars that o not have one, what do they relay on? Why have an OLM if you cannot use that feature to monitor the oil. and as one guy said, why doesn’t the manual say then that if the OLM is 50% then go check your oil levels and fill them up. Several times when I was getting other things done, service techs asked me if I wanted my fluids filled and I always said yes. Is there merit in discussing this with Chevrolet to put in their manuals under the OLM to check oil levels and integrity of oil at 50%. Of course that would have meant every 1500 miles or every 3rd day, I would have had to check the level of the oil. Is that really reasonable. I do not think so. And I do n ot think Chevrolet would expect people to do that or would have sold many Traverses or cars if the public thought they were to check the oil levels and integrity of the oil every 3rd day with optimum maintenance. The people who design these cars take into consideration what people are willing to do and if one of the features is played up that the OLM takes that hardship or inconvenience out of the picture and makes it easy by using your OLM then there has to be a built in factor of what the noirmal person is going to do. I thought I was doing that and actually schedulked to do that when the first CEL came on at 12, 700 miles and OLM said 7% remaining and from then on I had it in my mind that with the synthteic clend oil sold to me, I knew that figure was going to be burned into my brain along with zillions of other maintenance issues of life that when the CEL comes on, check the oil life and change it. Then I went on to worrying about other life things- that one under control I thought.

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AMost of my other cars when I went back to research the manuals had a V6 and had to add 6 qts of oil. I am not sure why the Traverse’s V6 only takes 5 qts oil. I think the design might be getting into an issue there because under the Edmuns.com and Chebrolet forums, this issue is being discussed but not in relationship to my episode but in regard to some of the same issues. Those forums are discussing the 5 vs 6 qts and in the previous models of cars using a V6 and 6 qys oil, there is abuilt in factor that one always has at least 1 qt oil. That is what I think I am understanding. So when people get oil change, I still am assuming the lube center tech is draining all the oil but the monotior would be telling the driver to change after 5 qts are low instead of 6 os so the forum seems to suggest. This would mean the car always had oil. (keep in mind my car never was without oil and the last delearship drained it at 35-50% life reading on the OLM- can’t remember now what they told me it was reading but it was 35-50%). But back to m y thought on the V6 differences.

If you are following this, if the gentlemen in one of the above responses said I was toasted after the 12,700 miles and you follow that. I was driving 2200 miles a week. So he indicating that in 6 weeks in a new car the engine was ruined? Is that believable? I know the car went in for some warratny work (not sure when) but I believe the car delearship would have checked maybe. But when the car was switched to the blend, and I drove another 13000 miles then that would have been in another 7 weeks. So in 2 1/2 months his theory says the engine would have been “toast???”

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…that also means I am pulling that hard to get to oil dipstick out every 7 days with 3,000 miles and I do not know of anybody that does that even mechanics.

I am not a mechanic, and I do that. Once a week, usually on Sunday night, I look under the hood, check all of the fluids, and check the tire pressure. Honestly, sometimes I forget, but I never go more than two or three weeks between checks.

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As best as I can interpret this, you checked the oil level once in 42k miles. The OLM algorithm for the calculation of oil life has nothing to do with oil level. I wish you the best of luck though.

Ed B.

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“that also means I am pulling that hard to get to oil dipstick out every 7 days with 3,000 miles and I do not know of anybody that does that even mechanics.”

No matter how quickly one accumulates those miles, anyone who goes 3,000 miles without checking the dipstick is extremely foolish, IMHO.

While you don’t know anyone who does this, I can tell you that I check my dipstick every 600-700 miles, which represents an interval of about every 3 weeks for me. Many of my friends are just as proactive in terms of under-hood checks of their cars. If the mechanics whom you know do not bother to do an under-hood check of their own cars even once during a 3,000 mile interval, I have to say that I do not have a high opinion of those mechanics.

When I am on a vacation roadtrip, I do an underhood check every day, and that represents checking fluids ~every 400 miles. I do this because the rate of oil consumption can increase when an engine is used for mostly high-speed driving, as on a long-distance expressway drive.

“the traverse oil dip stick is way too short and a little hard to get to”

Now, you’re really grasping at straws, IMHO.

“the CEL never came on until it corresponded with low oil life”

The CEL came on only when things became critical inside your engine. I think that you are mistaking the CEL (which essentially alerts you to emisssions-related problems stemming from fuel delivery, or electronic, or gasoline vapor issues, as well as to actual malfunctions stemming from a mechanical breakdown) for an all-seeing genie that monitors everything going on with your car and alerts you to problems before they exist.

Plese don’t mistake my comments as coming from someone who lacks empathy for you.
You trusted that the OLM was sufficient to tell you when to change the oil, and is is fairly obvious that it failed in that task. However, neither an OLM or a CEL monitors the level of oil in your engine. Only a dipstick check can do that, and is is also fairly obvious that dipstick checks were not done often enough on your vehicle.

Most Owner’s Manuals have verbiage to the effect of…check the oil dipstick at every fuel stop.
While that may be a bit extreme, that statement in your manual should have put you on notice that checking the dipstick once every 6,500 miles was not sufficient. I can virtually guarantee you that a statement to this effect is in your Owner’s Manual, and that may be a sufficient “out” for GM to deny your warranty claims.

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Anne, I too try to check my fluids at least once a week, but sometimes I forget. I am not a mechanic, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Seriously, I used to be a professional driver, and as a motorcycle rider, my life depends on doing thorough pre-trip inspections.

If the mechanics whom you know do not bother to do an under-hood check of their own cars even once during a 3,000 mile interval, I have to say that I do not have a high opinion of those mechanics.

VDCdriver, I was thinking the same thing. This isn’t like the riddle about which barber to choose, where you choose the guy with the terrible haircut and a messy shop. If a mechanic cares so little about his or her own car, why would this mechanic treat your car any better?

Anne, like I was saying, the group of people who frequent this forum aren’t a random sample. You are likely to find a lot of us who take better care of our cars than the average owner.

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I think there may be a simple issue that what I thought I was getting and what is on my customer record to always give me is not jiving. I will be investigating one man’s repsonse that with a $33 oil change even though my customer record and receipt shows I showed be getting the 5W30 synt blend, the price of the oil change does not match what is a typical synth blend price. Two were at $33 and one at $63 even though the customer history shows the car always gets the synthe blend. It shows in the past manual comment- holds 5 qts PH-8 5W/30 and the attendant wrote under all hisotry of the visits that each visit got the full service oil change with the synthetic blend. While it does not have the price, I wnet back through my check card statements and foudn the dates that orresponded with the visits and the price charged during those visits do not reflect a consistent price. I think the lube place may have put reg oil in on two times when they should have put the synth blend. I roll up, tell them to look into the history and I use a blend. I think that just might be the main issue here. I might have been operating the car on what I was trusting the lube place to use. However, whiole that is certainly a real issue and you all are right, I will never go back to a sefl service lube outfit again and my chevrolet dealership will be thrilled with that comment, I have to ask the question. "Why didn’t my other systems tell me something was wrong. As soon as I changed the oil, the engine light went off. It was on for half day becuase since I am retired, I was always alble to change it whenever. I had programmed in my mind at 7% it got changed. So why didn’t the car after my above response when it was getting higher mileage than normal in a short period of time not act up? Then there is the other thought- if the lube place did not actually put synthetic into the car until that third change at a high mileage then I agree I was operating the car under false assumptions but still the CEL should have been coming on to tell me all kinds of things. Nobody ever turned the CEL off- it went off after the oil was changed.

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GM’s Oil Life Monitor (OLM) ? Is it reliable?
December 17th, 2009 6:50 pm ETDear Tom,
I own a 2007 Chevrolet Trail Blazer. The dealer that I bought it from says I should change the oil every six months or 7,500 miles. The owner?s manual says once a year or until the oil life monitor tells me to change the oil. Which one is correct?
Jack from Madison, WI

Jack,
Follow the oil life monitor. This system has been tested extensively since 1984 and it?s very accurate. Just make sure that you reset the light when you have the oil changed.?
Tom?

Jack brings up a question that many people ask: ?Should I trust the Oil Life Monitor?? It?s an often-controversial subject, so it?s worthy of a closer look.

What is the GM OLM?
The GM OLM (Oil Life Monitor) is a system designed to calculate remaining oil life in your car?s engine. The system is based on a computer algorithm that measures the serviceable oil life based on three criteria: crankcase temperature, combustion chamber events (work the engine does), and moisture (which is affected by environmental as well as internal temps and conditions). These three elements are what determine engine oil life. The system is able to calculate serviceable engine oil life to within + or - 5%.

Can I trust the GM OLM?
Yes, the system has been in existence and tested since 1984. GM engineers have tested the GM OLM extensively in both laboratory and real world settings. As a matter of fact, GM has so much faith in the OLM system (based on countless individual tests performed by engineers) that they have issued a new “Simplified Maintenance Schedule.” It goes like this:

The new GM simplified maintenance schedules are performed in two phases. The first phase, ‘Maintenance I,’ includes basic services such as an oil and filter change, lubrication of chassis components, tire rotation, and inspection of the brake system and fluids. The second phase, ‘Maintenance II,’ includes all services included in Maintenance I, as well as inspections on the steering system, wiper blades, restraint systems, and lubrication of body components.

?Customers don’t have to worry about deciding when it?s the best time to change their engine oil because our Oil Life System technology adapts to their driving conditions and habits, and determines the right interval," said Peter Lord, executive director, GM Service Operations. “Since the new maintenance schedule is based on oil change intervals determined by this technology, customers can save time and cost.”

Finally, should you have to file a warranty claim for the engine, by accessing your car?s computer system, the dealer will be able to determine that your oil changes were done according to the dictates of the OLM and therefore exonerate you from warranty claim denial.?

Of what benefit is the GM OLM?
Use of the GMOLS will often double or even triple the oil change interval for a typical vehicle when compared to the 3,000-mile oil change. The GM OLM will automatically adjust the oil change interval based on engine characteristics, driving habits, and the climate/environment in which the vehicle is operated. For instance, mild highway driving in a warm climate will maximize the interval between oil changes. Depending on the vehicle, this could be in excess of 7,000 miles and as high as 12,000 miles (in some models). On the other hand, short trip driving in a cold climate may limit the oil change to 3,000 miles or less. In general, most people that drive a combination of city and highway find that the GM OLM will indicate an oil change every 5,000 to 6,000 miles. GM data shows the OLM extends oil change intervals without risks to the engine, saving you money in oil changes.

Is there anything I have to do with respect to the GM OLM?
Yes. Three things: (1) Drive and follow the dictates of the light; (2) Make sure the light is reset after you have the oil changed; (3) Make sure you use exactly the type and viscosity oil that the maintenance schedule recommends for your car. The reason why the light has to be reset? Because the system is not intuitive and therefore does not know the oil has been changed. The reason you have to use the type and viscosity oil the carmaker recommends? Because the design of the system is based on using the recommended oil from the factory. If you deviate from the OEM design requirements, then the system becomes inaccurate.

?Til next time ? Keep Rollin?

Continue reading on Examiner.com: GM’s Oil Life Monitor (OLM) ? Is it reliable? - National Auto Mechanic | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/auto-mechanic-in-national/gm-s-oil-life-monitor-olm-is-it-reliable#ixzz1CoUTLEMh

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I went back to document sto see exactly when I bought the car. It was Jan 2009 so it is 2 years old with 40,000 and math then would be about 1800 miles a week avg. I know from experience that I probably travel about 600 miles a week and have gone on many extended trips where I check the OLM to see if all is well and get the fluids topped. So in reality I am only traveling 600 miles a week with spurts for long trips. But the outcome is still the same 600 miles is still a lot per week up to 1800.

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To the OP:

I suggest adding a safety factor of 2 and changing oil when the OLM shows 50%,

and read ‘Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance’.

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In the responses at the bottom you will see that fluids were topped at several intervals and especially before going on long trips on vacation. Thank you for your repsonse. I also relied on the OLM as a first check for car integrity before the trip.

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Personally I don’t trust the oil change monitor systems yet. I change my oil every 5k miles and it’s pretty dirty. Is the oil still good??? I don’t know. But I do know that I’m getting a lot of the impurities out of the oil. I tend to keep my vehicles well past the 250k mile mark. If I changed my oil every 10k miles what will my engine be like at 200k miles???..or at 250k miles???

If you change your oil every 5k miles…how much extra is that really costing you over the life of ownership of the car??? To me it’s well worth it.

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I am earnestly reading all these responses and still today when I asked my dealership service mananger, he said the OLM is designed to make it easy to maintain the oil changing following the OLM as long as the engine always had some oil in it. Okay mine was never below 7%. So that brings me back to the old V6 like my old Trailblazers using 6qts. Did the older cars have a build in 1 qt of oil and maybe the 7% is not sufficient enough to car through (keep in mind the OLM was at 7% for about 6 hours at most you guys- I was a nut in that respect because I would ride around with the OLM readout on my dashboard where most leave their odometer and weather temperature outside reading on their dashboard. I got kind of used to haveing a little fun with following the %s. I know that is all bunk now because I never could in reality it appears follow the OLM reliably. All literature says though the “Easy Maintenance Schedule” should be realiable.

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“Checking Engine Oil
It is a good idea to check the engine oil level at each fuel fill. In order to get an accurate reading, the oil must be warm and the vehicle must be on level ground. . . If the oil is below the cross-hatched area at the tip of the dipstick, add at least one quart of the recommended oil.”

I was defending Cartalkanne, taking her word for being car savvy. It’s possible that some other cause has resulted in this car’s premature death (for Anne’s sake, I hope that’s the case), but it’s quite difficult to defend somebody who does not check their oil regularly.

I have at least 4 cars on the road at a time in our family and religiously check underhood fluids on all vehicles every weekend. It must be done to prevent a catastrophy.

Anne, open your Owner’s Manual and take a look. Then come back here and tell me that the manual does not have an admonition very similar to the quote above. Sorry.

CSA

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I totally agree. It was not the money. I have the money to maintain my Stroke 4 engine boat, my jset ski using seaparated oil and gas- a portable generator to run things-all by myself. I have maintained all those type things. There is merit written all through these responses to personally do the checks and maybe not rely on the electronic devices from the manufacturers. Yes I am a believer now in that two eyes on the matter are better than a chip or sensor looking at things. even though the manufactures are saying other wise. Miffed!

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I was using the OLM religiously and did that with the last 10 cars that had that type monitoring system along with topping fluids, checking at long distance trips for fluid levels. And yes the manual states that very quote above you mention when I looked it up. But while it says it is “a good idea,” it does not say it is a requirement at each fuel fill and the dealership says when I bought and said yesterday the car’s OLM was designed to take that worry out of the requirements and use the “Easy Maintenance Plan” they boast
to make life easier with the maintenance. We are still thinking we have not solved all issues. Thanks for that “good idea” and it will be just that and will be followed in my car maintenance future and I appreciate your responses all through this ordeal. I will forgo the Easy Maintenance schedule following the OLM it also states and go with the _fill it up and check the fluids." But I will still not do that every time because it is not practical and GM says that also and has designed a system they say is reliable since 1984 I think I read. Other factors come into play though and have to be double checked that what everybody is doing is what is supposed to be done. There has to be checks and balances to help prevent catastrophies and I think one big one GM designed into the system is the OLM.