What is considered an “accident”? For example, we hadn’t had our 2011 Toyota Sienna 2 months when an older lady hit it in the Lowe’s parking lot and put a dent in the side of the back bumper. She wanted me to have it repaired at the body shop of the Buick dealer. She said that she had given them a lot of business. When I got home, I was able to push the dent out with my hand, but there was a small scratch. I was going to use a touch up brush if I did anything at all because it wasn’t that obvious. However, my wife insisted that I have it repaired properly. I did go to the body shop and they knew the person that had hit the car and were laughing that she had done it again. At any rate, the back bumper was removed and refinished. think the bill was about $200. Now, does this really count as an “accident” that
would be on a CarFax" report? I’m not concerned, because I keep a vehicle a long time and the trade-in value is minimal. However, if my Sienna were totaled in an accident in the future, would this reduce the amount I would receive from an insurance company?
The part about “a” dealer doing the repairs is not very clear as the repairing dealer may not be the same as the selling dealer.
The end result is the same no matter if someone deliberately covered their tracks or whether someone overlooked damage during an inspection and signed off on the certification form anyway. The only question is the degree of fraud involved.
The Honda dealer stated that the car should NEVER (their emphasis) have been certified so someone was cooking the paperwork along the way.
- The “actionable” incident occurred 9 years ago, outside any likely SOL.
- The car in question gave OP apparently satisfactory service during OP’s ownership.
- OP has not demonstrated compensible harm. “Honda said the were going to give me $3k before” doesn’t cut it. And while the repaired car “might” have been less safe, the burden of proof would be on OP (but the SOL is expired anyways…)
- The words “salvage title” were never uttered by OP.
OP, you got almost a decade of satisfactory service from a repaired used car. You would have a tough burden quantifying monetary damage, plus you’d have to PROVE the seller knew (or should have known) that he was selling damaged goods. (Oh, and the SOL bit makes this moot.)
Count your blessings and move on with your life.
I don’t think the OP has a prayer with any legal action now that the car is gone but with contract law some states have lengthy SOLs. Some are in the 6-10 year range I think.
Not meaning this in a combative way at all, but the lack of a salvage title may not mean anything.
If the dealer did the repairs in-house and on their dime a salvage title may never even be a thought.
Even if insurance was previously involved, the percentage of the repair costs needed to cause the issuance of a salvage title may not be met. In OK it’s 60% of the car value and some states are higher. Even if a legitimate repair cost of say 55% was met that would mean some serious damage on a 1 year old Acura and the title would still remain clean.
The percentage is also subject to interpretation; especially if the repairing dealer is doing the work with discounted parts and discounted internal shop labor rates. A 75% figure to the car owner or insurance company might mean 25% to the dealer. Just something for consideration anyway.
Well we can just agree to disagree, just let a judge decide one way or another. I wouldn’t spend a lot of time or money on it but what’s the filing fee now, $35?
The point is you can’t have it both ways. If “certified” is used to establish a higher value on a car because it has passed all these inspection points, and you pay a premium for a certified car, you can’t then say its just a gimmick and doesn’t mean anything. The OP believed he had a premium vehicle, and the dealer told him so. A premium vehicle will also have a higher resale value which is part of the deal. He didn’t realize the loss in resale value until he sold it. I really don’t think it matters if it was a month or ten years later that a fraud or at least deceptive practices were discovered or at the very least incompetence.
But whatever, that’s what judges do. They can throw it out because of the time factor, for lack of verified damages, etc. Or they can award nothing or $2000 or split it like they do a lot at $1000. If nothing else it will send a message to the dealer and will provide some level of satisfaction to the OP.
I agree with Whitey above, and my opinion is that the Honda dealer found a way to save $2000 on the deal they made with you.
Who cares if the car was in an accident 10 years ago. Whether or not it ever should have been “Certified”, I assume you got 10 years of service out of the car. Have you had any or continuing trouble with tire wear, water intrusion, rust, squeaks and rattles, faded paint, steering and alignment, or other wear and tear out of the ordinary? If not, the repair made the car good as new.
It’s not the space shuttle or a Rembrandt. It’s a car. If I were in your shoes, I would be upset with the Honda dealer, not the dealer who sold you the car.
@Bing:
Gee, sue or don’t sue…but shouldn’t OP at least verify the SOL first? Pretty easy to do, and once it expires, all you’re doing by filing is wasting time: yours and the court’s.
I don’t believe the statute of limitations would apply if the fraud was concealed and the OP did not realize he was injured. In that case the time period would begin when he found out he was defrauded-in most states.
As others have mentioned, the Honda dealer’s claim that a 10 year old accident lowered the car’s value by 67% is just salesman BS. Saved the Honda dealer $2,000.
As mentioned there are a couple of significant problems with getting compensation.
First, the onus is on the OP to PROVE there was willful misrepresentation. After 10 years, that’s going to be nearly impossible.
Second, the car is no longer in their possession. This prohibits the original dealership from the ability to inspect and verify (or dispute) the claim of diminished value. For all anyone knows, it was a junker. You can’t just sell something to someone and then turn around and say, I only got $X and the book says it should be worth $Y so you owe me the difference. And, as pointed out, the fact the OP accepted that as payment says volumes about the actual harm. If it was so harming, why would you proceed with the sale?
At the point where the Honda dealer reduced the value by $2000, I would have cancelled the transaction. There will always be cars. A friend of mine a couple of years ago made a deal on a new Chevrolet Impala. The price, including his trade, had been agreed and he had signed the sales order. The dealer then said he had made a mistake and couldn’t sell the car for the agreed price. My friend tore up the agreement, walked out, and went to the Toyota dealer and bought a Camry.
My guess is that if the Honda dealer saw the sale evaporating, the $2000 would have been restore to your trade-in.
I can see the dealer’s point of view, frame straightened, and if I was a buyer and had 2 similar cars I would avoid the wrecked and repaired car, unless a significant discount was applied. Sure it was fixed right and drives fine, but the stigma remains. The big question would be was it a factor that would have negated the certification at the time you bought the car.
You probably don’t have any options, but I’d talk to the highest-up person you can at the dealer, and tell him or her, “Fine, you pulled a fast one on me, congratulations. Not only have you lost any future business from me, my family, and friends, but I will be sure to mention my experiences here as far and wide as I can, including on social media, and if I even overhear someone at the next table in a restaurant mention they’re considering buying a car from you. Have a nice day, and congrats once again, you win.”
What will that accomplish? If you’re less confrontational about it, you might actually get something. I’d write a thorough letter saying something similar, but giving them a chance to make it right. You never know. They might be interested in giving you some of your money back, and then you can still tell your friends and family about your bad experience and never go back there.
@Whitey: I would use my method as a last resort after having exhausted other options, nothing more.
My guess is that your 2003 Acura was sent to the auction. My experience has been that new car dealers and the more upscale used car dealers do not want older used cars. In 1973, I had a 1965 Rambler and needed a newer car. I found a 1971 Ford Maverick Grabber at an out-of-town Dodge dealer. The price was $2495. When I mentioned my1965 Rambler as a trade-in, the price dropped to $2200. When I frowned, the price dropped to $2000 straight out or $2200 if I traded the car. I bought the Maverick straight out and sold the Rambler a week later for $250. In December of 1995, I found a 1993 Oldsmobile 88 with only 15,000 miles at a well established used car dealer. The price was $14,900. When I suggested I had a 1978 Olds Cutlass Salon to trade in, the price dropped to $14,500. However, if I bought the car straight out, I could have it for $14,200. I bought the 1993 Oldsmobile straight out and used the 1978 Olds as a back up car until October of 2011 when I sold it for $500. I’ve learned not to trade a car, but to buy straight out from a dealer.
Probably depends on the trade-in. If you’ve got a 2005 Mustang GT with the upgraded stereo and satnav, you’d have an easier time trading in than if you had a barebones 2005 Chevy Aveo.