To me it is styling. dependability, warranty, and pricing. If VW has the product, I would buy. VW is a huge corporation, yet we want to judge the entire organization by a dozen of so folks? Anyone spending any time in a large corporation realizes there are all types represented and yes, sometimes the scoundrels are the ones that get the leadership positions.
I’ve worked in very large (over 100k employees) corporations to very small (under 10 employees) companies.
I don’t believe for one minute that upper management didn’t know what was going on. That’s just a cop out…a way to let VW off the hook for some sleazy business practices. If upper management didn’t know…that’s MUCH MUCH WORSE. That tells me they don’t have an auditing system in place to catch rogue employees. That is almost criminal in itself. Could you imagine if upper management in a Nuclear Power plant had the same hands-off way of management?
Missed point entirely. Just because 20 people at the top of a 100K person corporation are scoundrels does not mean the other 99,980 employees are also scoundrels. In other words I’m not sure you can throw out a whole organization because of a few bad people.
It is not just a dozen folks at VW! This had to go up to at least the VP level. VW tried to hide its fraud for over a year after road tests showed the problem. Not a single technician, engineer, manager, or exec exposed or opposed the fraud. That is the kind of corporate atmosphere at VW from top to bottom.
I agree with that…however it’s the people at the top that control the company. And if they do CRIMINAL acts…then they need to be held accountable. Since this country has been extremely unwilling to ever bring criminal charges to these people…the only other alternative is to punish the company. It’s a broad net…but it’s better then doing nothing. Please note…NOT ONE person at VW has been brought up on any criminal charges.
It is not just a dozen folks at VW! This had to go up to at least the VP level.There is a concept known as "Plausible Deniability." Meaning, if you have to engage in monkey business, you try to "compartmentalize" that knowledge at the level it occurs, to insulate those at high levels from detailed knowledge of incriminating evidence. Basically...all those sordid things that occur in the dungeon of the castle...are better off NOT relayed in detail to the king, and in turn the King is well-advised NOT to ask the inquisitor too many uncomfortable questions.
SO, I can in theory believe the top brass lacked specific knowledge of the goings-on, but I believe that they surely “knew enough, to know not to ask.” I.e. “Get this car to market–and do NOT tell me how you did it; just DO it!”
“We used to enjoy the stench from the local paper plant (35 miles away) now you can barely smell it.”
Back in the early '60s, I can recall visiting Fort Ticonderoga historic site in upstate NY. Despite the pristine surroundings, the air smelled like somebody had boiled rotten cabbage for several weeks. When we asked about the cause of this overpowering odor, we were told, “Oh, it’s the paper plant”.
While I haven’t been back to that area, I suspect that the paper plant was–long ago–required to do something to control those nasty emissions.
@VDCDriver A pulp or paper mill can be very clean and still smell. The human nose can detect these impurities to the tune of PARTS PER BILLION in the air. And they are harmless.
However, with today’s technology almost all of the smells are gone. Locals would no longer notice it, only visitors would notice.
“I agree with that…however it’s the people at the top that control the company. And if they do CRIMINAL acts…then they need to be held accountable.”
If enough regulations, restrictions, laws, ordinances, etcetera, are put on people or corporations then eventually everybody becomes a criminal. We are just about there. The average citizen breaks the law almost daily, often unaware that it’s happening.
Then there’s the costs associated with complying and that gets passed to consumers, most of whom can no longer afford to buy a new car. Some companies are forced to fudge some things to stay profitable, provide products people can afford, and to stay in business.
When I bought my current home I would not have had a problem controlling animals or managing shoreline erosion, just to give two examples.
Now, if beavers move into my property and take down trees (some nearly a foot in diameter), some within 20 feet of the house, and I kill them, I am a criminal.
Move a rock that’s near the lake, on my own property, and I’m a criminal. That has not always been the case.
There are literally hundreds of ways to become a criminal at my house without even leaving home. I guess it’s just little old rebellious me, but I feel somewhat better whenever I read or hear of cases where some of the endless restrictions put on people are compromised.
We’re all criminals, now!
CSA
Yep, a BB gun like we used to carry when we were 12 years old, is considered a fire arm now and it is a felony to use it in the city here. Of course if convicted you are not allowed to vote or own real fire arms. That’s why the scale has tipped too far and needs to come back to center again.
We are just about there. The average citizen breaks the law almost daily, often unaware that it's happening.
I NEVER have. Traffic infractions sure…but actual misdemeanor or felony laws…NOT EVER.
We’re not talking about little infractions…we’re talking about major crimes that can adversely effect hundreds if not THOUSANDS of peoples lives.
Many times the cost increase is miniscule…and companies are still against it because it’ll decrease profits that quarter by .01 dollar/share.
“We’re not talking about little infractions…we’re talking about major crimes that can adversely effect hundreds if not THOUSANDS of peoples lives.”
However, a handful of “intelligent” people pick and choose what the parameters of some things should be, what levels of undesirable outcomes should be allowed or not allowed and what things constitute crimes and the levels of how serious the crimes are.
I’d rather have these folks go after distracted driving or dangerous pet dogs that maim and kill people daily. Some cars cause high levels of emissions and it’s treated like a felony. Others with old cars creating more pollution are free to operate. China puts out plumes of fumes that traverse the earth and that’s not a crime.
I agree with Bing, we need to get a grip and get back toward the center and sanity. This is not anything like the country I grew up in. I have given up on some activities I once enjoyed because of too many regulations, licenses, fees, permits, taxes, enforcement, etcetera.
CSA
I have given up on some activities I once enjoyed because of too many regulations, licenses, fees, permits, taxes, enforcement, etcetera.
I hear model rocketry is really taking it on the chin, because of fears rocket propellant could be fabricated into a missile, and/or IED. Similarly, those “Jr. Science Chemsitry Sets” from years past are often outlawed, for fear of creating a generation of Walter Whites.
With all this implicit war on science, I have to wonder where the next generation of chemists and, uh, automotive engineers will come from.
CSA, go research dog attack deaths and deaths caused by smog. You will see smog kills more people.
CSA, go research dog attack deaths and deaths caused by smog. You will see smog kills more people.
Um, “contributed to death” =/= “caused death,” especially when a biased organization is doing the counting. If you have black lung from working in a coal mine, check into a hospital in an urban setting, and expire a few weeks before you otherwise would have, did “urban pollution” kill you?
Tell me, instead, how many deaths are proximately caused by pollution (i.e. would have been healthy and alive, but–due predominantly to one major factor–is now deceased).
Dogs typically proximately cause death, if they do at all–unless you want to count stuff like death by emphysema made somewhat worse by exposure to dander allergens…which is the closest parallel to how “contributed to death” air pollution stats are generated.
Have they put the new forum rules in effect yet ?I still cant tell the current page number from the others .
As More And More Regulations Take Our Freedom You’ll See More And More Law Breakers.
Oh how humans love to forget… Ever hear of a place named ROME ?
The similarities we share with them is spooky…preventable if we act now…but we wont…you already can guess the outcome.
Semper Fi
Blackbird
Have to agree Honda ,when the country fails ,so goes the American auto industry ,just a matter of time before we are "Balkanized " or worse .
I hear you man… Its a sad state of affairs…all of it. The American Auto Industry…uh boy…aside from Ford haven’t we already lost the industry?
7 out of 10 GM vehicles are now MADE IN CHINA… Chew on that for a minute…even after the bailout.
We are in trouble to put things very mildly.
Blackbird
And I said ," Amen " .