I have a 89 V624V Camry with shims. given the way the engien is tilted back towards the firewall I defy any mechanic to adjust them completely.
they appear to be working fine after some 130K of useage. However I let it sit idle for weeks and on restarting all the shims appear to clatter for about a minute till the head gets oiled up. Starting it every day and there is not a peep or pop out of it.
it it is a std 4cyl, the gaps are very easy the check. If there is nothign wrong, no need to do anything. And if you don’t hear tipping from the valve area, I’d bet it is within spec.
Change “lifters” are you sure it is not a typo, Changing lifters sounds like a cam removal job, which sounds nuts just to adjust a few valves.
I’m not a Toyota expert by any means, but most valve adjustments are accomplished with either the adjusting screw/lock nut method or by a discs or shims that are available in varying thicknesses.
The latter usually means a valve adjustment is expensive due to the price of the shims and the complexity of changing them.
Many Japanese motorcycles have used the shim method for many years and a valve adjustment can get expensive even on those; especially the multi-cylinder Kawasakis, etc.
Solid lifters will give a slight performance edge but in reality a street car should have hydraulics IMHO and the solid lifters should be left to the race car guys.
Even those old fossils, Harley Davidson motorcycles, have used hydraulics for years. My 1950 OHV panhead was one of the first models to use hydraulics and it celebrates its 57th birthday in September.
$300.00 seems high but if the car has solid lifters, by all means have someone check/adjust the valve lash. Especially if it hasn’t been done in 90k mi.
Valve adjustments can get expensive and more so in regards to the “shim and bucket” types. Complaints should be directed to the engineers and car makers, not the shop and mechanic who had nothing to do with the design.
Honda Motor Co. gave an idiotic extended interval of 105k for servicing of solid lifters on some of their models and look what happens:
http://www.hontech.com/alert2.php
That’s it in a nutshell, no matter the car brand.
Unfortunately, the folks who determine the maintenance schedules are under some pressure to make cars (especially cheap ones) appear “low maintenance,” at the expense of longevity. Apparently, they have figured out (correctly) that many americans are not willing to pay to preserve their vehicles, they would rather buy new disposable vehicles than perform proper maintenance.
Also, the design of the high volume cars often has more to do with ease of initial assembly than maintainability. They understand that most folks will just drive them until they die then buy another one. Unfortunately, they are correct.
You don’t have to do that, Toyota used to use hydraulic lifters. Probably, they love doing simplifications for cost reasons.(no adjusting shims, no valve seats) Besides, those lifters are quite light in weight so it’s not that bad.
Before 1998, Toyota engines DID use shims to adjust valve clearance! The valve spring is depressed and the correct thickness shim inserted. Yes, there are valve STEMS; but not ROCKER ARMS with adjustment screws on these engines (1.6L and 1.8L). The average novice mechanic could remove the valve cover and check the valve lifter to camshaft lobe clearance (the “valve clearance”). If the clearance is excessive, THEN a more experienced mechanic could remove the camshaft(s) and install the selected valve lifters. Or, an independent shop could (and would) do this cheaper than a dealer. So, in summary, you could have the valve clearances checked, ALL values recorded; then, decide IF you want the rest performed.
My post is out of chronological order, which can be confusing. I posted 5 entries up from this. ++++ Another worm in this program is getting logged off, again and again. ++ me_art12
Hats off for actually reading repair manual and not making assumptions like most of us fools. And Like most shade tree mechanics, I am shocked that the lifter needs to be matched for each valve… But that is the way of consumer products sold in the USA. We want cheaper stuff and reward manufactuers by buying the cheaper stuff. Having worked with manufacturing companies for 20 years I must say I should not be surprized as annual cost savings are often seen as their only salvation.
I just bought a 2007 Toyota Corolla. The owner’s manual (The world’s "least read best seller’) states that as recommended maintenance, “Inspect for excessive tappet noise and/or engine vibration. A qualified Toyota technician should do this”
The mileage is not given for this activity, but when the car goes in for regular service, the technician should listen for these noises at no cost. If the engine is excessively noisy and the valves need adjusting (mechnical lifters), the charge is not excessive. It looks like this is another “make work” item the dealers dream up and scare the customer in accepting. Note this work should be done free of charge if necessary before the warranty is up.
I’d get the clearances checked and then think about it. Isn’t no noise just as bad (or worse) than valve “clatter”?
Valve adjustments are NOT a “dealer make work program”.
It falls into the same category as adjusting brakes, adjusting belts, or adjusting a loose window in the driver’s door. It’s regular maintenance, pure and simple, and that’s why warranty is not going to pay for it.
By the time any problem surfaces due to either the valves being too loose or too tight (more than likely), the vehicle will be OUT of warranty and the customer stands alone.
That being said, if your owners manual (which the dealer has nothing to do with) states that a valve check should be based on “clattering or vibration”, then I can only say one thing.
Whoever was behind that statement is the world’s biggest fool and makes me wonder why TMC has them on the payroll.
Assume you motor along for tens of thousands of miles with no noise at all and THEN vibration starts - due to burned valves which are now causing a severe miss. Once this occurs it’s way too late to go back.
The QUIET ones are the ones you really have to worry about.
For those who think solid lifter valve adjustments are dealer make work, don’t mean anything, yada, yada, yada; then ignore it. Cylinder head and valve work is something I enjoy doing - it’s labor intensive; a.k.a. expensive.
Overhead cam solid lifter engines can indeed be designed so valve adjustment is seldom if ever required. Cam and lifter wear perfectly match stem stretch and seat wear so that valve clearance stays pretty constant over the life of the engine…A generous initial clearance pretty much eliminates the possibility of a “tight valve”. We are talking about mundane “street engines” here, not high-performance or racing engines…
That being said, if your owners manual (which the dealer has nothing to do with) states that a valve check should be based on “clattering or vibration”, then I can only say one thing.
Whoever was behind that statement is the world’s biggest fool and makes me wonder why TMC has them on the payroll.
Exactly, all this listening for clattering noise is nonsense. The real problem is when the valves are too tight, resulting in burned valves and seats. Unfortunately, valve clearances usually have a tendency to get tighter, not looser. I guess toyota figures this won’t happen until the car is out of warrantee.
Cam and lifter wear perfectly match stem stretch and seat wear so that valve clearance stays pretty constant over the life of the engine…
I guess that depends on the “life of the engine.” These must be the same folks who thought of “lifetime transmission fluid.” What a concept; disposable engines.
I’ve been doing “shim and bucket” valve adjustments since the 70s and I can say that I’ve had to adjust many of them; no matter the make, the engine, or the mileage.
Some loose, some tight; it varies. Generally the exhaust have a tendency to tighten, BUT overly loose ones will do what? They will pound the valve stem down or create wear on the rocker arm, lash adjusters, or cam followers, and this means more clearance, not less.
Cam wear? I would hope that cam lobe would not wear at all. Once through that microscopically thin hard coat the lobe will become history fast.
On a car with outer-shim layout, a good mechaninc at Toyota dealer would be able to get it done within an hour regardless of the number of valves.(by usubg a special tool to replace the shims without removing the camshafts) Their traditional “shim-less lifters” on the other hand, is a different story so it could take all afternoon if your mechanic is dull and lousy.
I had a 1991 Toyota Tercel and a 1992 Toyota 2WD picup truck. I drove the Tercel for eight years (to 200k miles), when I sold it to my brother, who is still driving it. I drove the pickup for fourteen years, sold it last October after 180k. I never touched the valves on either.
Some are lucky, some are not. The smart, and recommended for a reason, thing to do is check them on a regular basis rather than go on the cheap.
That is the purpose of an INSPECTION; to make sure everything is right and to adjust if necessary.
To repeat, look at what some of these people are facing.
http://www.hontech.com/alert2.php
I had to replace not one, but both heads on a Subaru because a guy neglected a FREE follow up valve adjustment and this car only had about 7k miles on it.
Who was he blaming? The dealer, the shop, Subaru of America, the general public, the Pope, …(Nope, warranty would not pay one dime of this and the car was only 3 months old.)
If your vehicles had developed cylinder head problems during or just out of the warranty period due to your failure to have the lash checked and adjusted as necessary, and Toyota would not pay for it (warranty or no), your reaction when facing a large repair bill would be…?
I know what it would be. See the paragraph above.