I’d be interested in knowing where you get your sub-30 mpg claim for the Volt, though. I haven’t seen a single story reporting anywhere near that
Took me all of 5 seconds.
http://www.plugincars.com/gm-fervently-denies-sub-30-mpg-fuel-economy-claim-chevy-volt-61907.html
Perhaps before including the federal tax credit to offset the cost difference of the Volt against the Prius you should review the federal government’s guidlines on the subject.
eraser1998…
Not that I want to continue to beat a dead horse, but what the “hay”…
I did not see any reference to excise tax and yearly registration fees. In my state and amount to differences that ARE substantial. Remember too that these costs along with insurance are based upon the retail price before any tax credit is assigned. If you compare the cost of the Volt to a Prius, be sure and include a substantial rebate to that car as well.
The series hybrid when running on gas, is less efficient then the parallel hybrid. If they made sense, Toyota would have made them years ago as they are much simpler. The system on the Volt makes sense ONLY if the elelctric range is much greater (80 to 100 miles). Think of it…$32k at least for a compact you must drive fewer then 35 miles per day over years before it begins to pay back.
The caveat I would argue in favor is that if the maintenance costs on the Volt prove to be nill…it then begins to make sense. If the oil change interval max. out to 2 years and subsequent tune ups are indefinite along with NO transmission or related drive train maintenance are the norm; then the Volt gets my attentio.
Tesla makes money because it sells expensive cars that rich guys buy as toys (and NO Tesla actually sees a 200 mile range). The Volt is a mainstream car that is cheaper but too expensive for what it delivers. The extra $12K it costs won’t pay off until about 150,000 miles here in the midwest where electricity is cheap even if only run with electricity. Same for the EV1. All suffer from the same problem, the batteries don’t hold as much energy as ONE gallon of gas! Battery cost is an issue but capacity is a much bigger one. Battery cost doesn’t need to drop as badly as capacity needs to rise.
That said, maintenance will still be required. Look at your basic electric forklift truck. Both the truck and lead acid battery require continual care over the 20,000 hours of life. Cars book 4000 hours or so in 100,000 miles. Electric cars will require this as well so take heart all you mechanics out there.
Electric cars, not ready to replace the gas and diesel cars and trucks.
Not to beat a dead horse, but… 
You’re too focused on the 35 mile limit. Even at higher miles, it can still pay back over a Prius because, although the 35-50 mile range might use more gas than the 35-50 mile range on the Prius, you’ve saved a considerable amount over the first 35 miles. Increasing the electric only range would help except that there is a huge price and weight penalty to that at this point. Doubling the range to 70 miles would likely add another $10-15k and several hundred pounds. I’d point out that it isn’t so much the series vs. parallel that makes the gas only mpg lower. It’s the weight of those extra batteries. It adds a LOT in weight. The Volt is a porker in this respect.
Most states don’t have excise taxes (beyond initial sales taxes) and registration fees for a Volt and a Prius would be identical. My 1998 Camry and my 2010 Mazda6 have identical annual fees here in Ohio, though they have dramatically different market values.
the same mountainbike
2:21PM
Perhaps before including the federal tax credit to offset the cost difference of the Volt against the Prius you should review the federal government’s guidlines on the subject.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml
The credit for plugins is different:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxphevb.shtml
The Volt easily meets all those requirements and GM is nowhere near the 200,000 per manufacturer limit yet. The only caveat to the $7500 credit is that you need to have a tax bill of $7500 or more to claim it all.
Eraser1998…,
You do bring up a good point. The EV1 was a reasonable exercise because it was so light and it’s use limited. Everything significantly affects the range of an electric car to a greater degree then an ICE car. Temperature, options use (AC) and the like, weight, less then stellar driving habits etc. Especially when use of a daily driver as close to 35 miles under ideal conditions is absolutely necessary for reasonable payback is mandatory.
The less you use it under 35 miles and the more you use it over, makes living 17.5 miles from work the only practical solution…In a very temperate climate I might add. This makes 12000 miles per year of daily commutes the sweet spot.
The Volt is caught in no mans land. It has so many caveats to realize it’s advantage, that only the Jay Lenos of this world make it practical as a donation to GMs coffers. It’s an expensive exercise in low tech advertising gimmickry.
With all due respect, I will trust all the supports of the Volt when I see one in their driveway after laying down 40 big ones for this compact while waiting to recover their losses with confidence through the govt. and time.
Well, with all due respect, maybe I should only believe trucks are useful if I buy one, even though it would be a bad solution for me? A Volt is a bad choice for me, as is a Prius even, simply because I drive too little.
However, the Volt does truly work financially for some. It is a small market that it would work for, but that market is there. Some even would buy as a hedge against rising gas prices. Similar to when the Prius came out - at the time Toyota introduced it, I was buying gas for about 95 cents per gallon. It made zero financial sense at the time, especially considering it cost Toyota near $50,000 to make per vehicle. By the time they started selling them in the US, things were a little better for them, but still it made next to no sense financially for consumers here. Times change, and vehicles (and costs) improve. Toyota cut Prius costs by half in just a few years. I haven’t seen projections that aggressive for the Volt, but I have seen projections of $10k in cuts (what GM management is even demanding) in the next few years. That could change cost/benefits dramatically… especially if gas increases in price.
Of course, if gas drops in price, you bought an expensive vehicle.
Eraser1998…I agree with everything you say. Let me add that initially, every new model costs more to manufacture then to sell and profit dependents not only on future sales but long term parts and service, financing and trade ins. It’s these other areas that to my way of thinking, drive up the price of electric cars making it difficult to realize profits as their driving range increases. Corps. Must make money first to survive. The Volt in present form will never be a big seller or reap enough profit long term to accomplish that without tax dollar incentives…you and I are paying for advertising.
Toyota now offers a plug-in Prius in some US markets. The Prius Advanced and Volt seem to match best, and both will set you back a little over $40,000 when comparably equipped. The difference is that the Volt can go over 40 miles without using the ICE, while the Prius can’t even go 15 miles without the ICE. And the Prius can’t go over 62 MPH in full electric mode while the Volt can go faster. The Volt doesn’t seem so bad when equivalent cars are compared. Here’s an article by someone that lived with the Volt for a while:
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2012/05/08/in-defense-of-the-chevy-volt
Speaking of appliances, dagosa, I rode much of the way home around a Scion xB; clearly an appliance. Even the owner agrees. His license plate reads:
MYTOASTR
No doubt about it - this Scion is an appliance. The owner thinks so, and the state must agree. Otherwise, why would they let him have this vanity plate? I win. 8P
And have a great weekend.
Seen a Volt at UVA last week,cool looking car-there is a nest of Pruis over there also-Kevin
Just over $40,000?
Man, that’s alott of cash for a basic small sedan!
Cute plate. Yeah, the xA and xB were clearly appliances, the xB being very reminiscent of a toaster. But they both had one huge redeeming feature…they were AFFORDABLE!!! And reliable. Sort of like the old air cooled Beetles.
I agree, mountainbike - it IS a lot of cash. The catch of course is that some people don’t mind paying a lot for a well-equipped car, even if it is small.
I personally like basic vehicles, with few or no fancy features. I want it to be comfortable and economical. That rules out the Volt or Prius plugin for me right now, even though I do like the idea behind them. I simply don’t drive enough to justify them. However, if gas gets expensive or vehicle prices drop, that changes things. I’d rather these companies learn how to make the vehicles affordably so that they don’t panic if gas suddenly spikes and get caught unprepared for the change. The Volt is selling well in Europe right now, but $7-9/gal changes the economics VERY quickly. I’m more than happy to pay more now to save money later, given the right risk/reward.
Amen to all of your points.
I personally like basic vehicles too…as long as I’m no a budget.
But if I win the lottery…I also like Bentleys and Morgans!
It’s a lot of cash, but the tax refund is worth $7500. Still, $32,500 is a lot for a sedan of this size. But it always costs early adopters more for new technology. The manufacturers have to pay of the non-recurring engineering unless management makes a decision to handle it another way. I think Toyota did that with the Prius and I believe that Nissan is doing it with the Leaf. GM is not in the same enviable position of being able to apportion the NRE to other autos as Toyota or Renault can. Oh, did I say Renault? I meant Nissan. No, I didn’t. Note that this is an opinion, and not a fact as far as I know.
And I’m all over the Bentley Mulsanne. Maybe we can win the Lotto on the same weekend and go car shopping together! But Mrs JT gets the first car - it’s her turn. As always, she gets anything she wants. It’s a good thing she is a frugal young lady. Until we win the Lottery, smb.
Jt…toaster ? You definitely win…
In some people’s defense, they don’t care about sticker price, they just want that monthly payment number. Others just want that smug feeling where they feel like they’re doing something good for the environment
@the same mountainbike -
OTOH, if I win the lottery, it’s a pre-war Packard for me. I don’t care which one… or how many cylinders. Or how poor of gas mileage…
“Jt…toaster ?”
Yup. I wanted a picture, but Rte 95 is not the place to take photos with my phone.
I spent years selling appliances and the newest technologies out there are direct drive motors…meaning no belts required to turn the major components in the motors of wash machines, dishwashers, and dryers. I know its probably not relevent to cars but it makes me wonder. The direct drive motors for appliances use magnetic energy to turn the axels and pulleys. I wonder if that would apply to electric cars as well?