Just to be clear, Juan Pablo was never a F1 champ, he never finished higher than 3’d in the points and he basically washed out of F1 after not making it near the top in five seasons. He was essentially fired by McLaren when they declined to renew his contract in 2006. He was an impressive driver in his prime (before he entered F1) who never lived up to his potential, but now he’s just retired. His tendency to bend cars (his own and others, including his teammate’s) was one of the reasons he never really made it in F1 (NASCAR cars are much cheaper to fix and they seem to have more tolerance for that type of behavior).
Seriously, I enjoyed watching NASCAR when I was a kid and they ran real production cars (and domestic production cars were actually interesting to watch). I have no interest in them running spec cars and trying to cash in on washed-up drivers from other series. They have gotten greedy and are now just cashing in on TV money. They were much better when they were in their own neighborhood running real cars, now they seem to be in the same class as professional wrestling and reality TV shows. But I’m sure they are making plenty of money these days.
I also enjoyed watching indy racing before they imploded and tried to reinvent themselves on the cheap. I do hope they eventually get their stuff together. I would really like to see a credible U.S. open wheel series, F1 is too expensive for private teams to be competitive. Indy could provide a good “second tier” racing series, and maybe even develop some decent U.S. drivers for a change. They need to get rid of the silly spec engines and get some money back into the sport if they want to be taken seriously and attract any new talent. There are plenty of auto manufacturers who would probably put together an open wheel team if they didn’t have to spend $500M per year to come in last (like the honda F1 team). However, I would not feel bad if they let the “500” fade into history and stuck to road courses.
Sorry, but I just can’t stay awake through a football game.
They let the kids play without giving them time to learn the game. Almost all the accidents were initiated by a newbie. They were not given any extra time to learn the track or pits. Even small errors are often catastrophic at nearly 200 MPH in a field of over 20 cars. The IRL asked for trouble and they got it. Maybe next year they’ll give the kids a chance to learn the track before turning them loose on the experienced drivers.
Montoya never finished higher than 3rd in the premier racing circuit in the world? What a bum! That’s like saying that most top tier professional sportsmen are hacks. IMO they are all outstanding players. If someone is willing to pay them, they are outstanding. Especially anyone that can drive for any team in F1, even Force India or Honda. BTW, Barrichello is still racing F1 despite being let go by Ferrari, and may other racers change teams for the same reason.
What planet are you on, Craig? The NASCAR drivers are as skinny as the F1 Blokes. They are all top tier drivers in their own fields. I happen to like F1 and ALMS best, but that doesn’t make NASCAR drivers inferior. Are you sure that you weren’t looking at the crew chiefs? ;’)
See my comments on Montoya below. I don’t know who the others are, where did they come from (not from F1, I believe)?
I’m not taking about Juan Pablo’s well known tendency to drive into cars and other things, either. These two types of cars are not comparable.
When I said F1 cars are difficult to drive, I meant that I don’t think I could make it around an empty track in one piece at any speed. I have read interviews with former F1 drivers (from 20 years ago) who tried driving the current cars at moderate speeds and were not even able to remain upright in their seat while accelerating or cornering. I doubt that I could even see where I was going in a 4g corner or under 5-6g braking (imagine spending 2 straight hours on a nasty roller coaster ride).
I do think I could drive a current NASCAR car around a track and survive, much like I can drive a street legal sports car around a road track without killing myself (hopefully).
Good point, they do need to do something different before these guys hurt themselves. I saw some pretty dumb moves during that race. Also, I’m not sure that track should still be in service for a 200+ mph race. It might be time for them to move on to another venue and let the old indy track become a museum. Did you see the crash that ended up with the car spinning into the pit road, it’s not the first time that has happened on that track?
I’m not criticizing Montoya or other former F1 drivers who have moved to other series, I’m just saying that he was never the best and he was definitely in decline before he ever got into a NASCAR car, he also had a tendency to be a little “reckless” throughout his career, I doubt he is going to become more conservative in a bigger, slower car that he could pay for out of his petty cash account.
BTW, apparently Michael Schumacher managed to crash his motorcycle during a bike race recently, I don’t think we are going to see him a NASCAR race anytime soon:
the BEST thing about NASCAR,is and I’m sorry ! NOT at all is the ROAD COURSE, I can’t stop laughing. Big clummpy POS! trying to compete.
and they go the other way,at least I know what stuff to purchase. kills me .
200 mph is what they fed you.
and you belive.
I have street bikes that are faster then NASCAR LUMPS(but will never come close too F-1 cars. EVER
THIS TOPIC IS VERY INTERESTING,because most here have no clue About the logistics.or F-1/ I said some people(so those who do please do NOT jump on my SACK(potatos of course)
Based on the TV commercial I saw the other day, I don’t think anything could squeeze Tony Stewart into a F1 car. He seems to have the build of a professional bowler. I don’t know most of their drivers’ names, but from what I’ve seen a few of them are on the chubby side.
American open wheel racing change a lot when Tony George created the IRL. CART racing and the IRL suffered because there was not enough money for a premier racing league when the two were apart. That occured in the mid 1990s. This year is the first Indy 500 after IRL and CART rejoined. There are a lot of CART drivers who never raced at Indianapolis. The split also meant that IRL had to go with just one engine manufacturer: Honda. The IRL and Honda are actively seeking additional engine suppliers to add another dimension to the races. Part of the fun in F1 is the improvements among Ferrari, BMW, Renault, Mecerdes Benz, Honda, and Toyota engines.
I don’t think open wheel racing has done as good a job of making stars of the drivers. NASCAR has done a fabulous job of promotion, making stars of their winning drivers.
As far as the cars go, I remember when stock cars were made from real cars. A Dodge was really made from a stock Dodge, a Ford was really made from a stock Ford. That was real racing. Today they’ve regulated the cars to the extend that the only thing different is the decorative stickers. They have some 35 templates just for the body profile and reams of technical requirements for the mechanicals. To me it’s taken a great deal out of the race. I like the European way, porsch racing against Ferrarri racing against BMW, all made from real cars.
I do think I could drive a current NASCAR car around a track and survive, much like I can drive a street legal sports car around a road track without killing myself (hopefully).
I’m sorry, you can keep thinking if you want, I’d like to see you at a place like Bristol or Martinsville with 42 other cars on a half mile track drive that thing like a sports car. Shoot, I’d like to see you at Talladega at 190 mph in a car that’s jumping all over the place among 42 others.
For what it’s worth, I was at the last Talladega race ran without restrictor plates. There’s a reason they put those on the car and it wasn’t to equalize the field, it was because parts of Bobby Allison’s car ended up in the stands and seriously hurt some people. It’s called lawyers and safety. They’ll likely learn their lesson in Indy or the IRL one of these days as well.
It’s a treat in Nascar to see one of the legends climb in a car and give it a go. Morgan Shepherd must be in his mid 60’s by now, and he still makes a race from time to time. I can remember watching Red Farmer run in his 60’s at Dega, and he’s still runninig short tracks in his 70’s. For the most part though the drivers are under 35. I remember a time when rookies were in their 30’s by the time they made it to the big time.
Nascar has it’s deamons for sure. I think universally fans would tell you 1. They don’t like the mega team business and 2. The top 35 sucks. I wish it could go back to the days when a guy could put together a car and if he was fast enough, make the race, and if he could drive, have a possibility of winning. Unfortunate as it is, that’s not the case today. If anything kills Nascar, it’ll be the fact that like Indy and like F1 you have to have a very rich daddy to ever have a chance of getting into a car. The true fans of the sport remember the days when a Bill Elliott showed up with his brothers and cousins for a crew and won races. Shoot, Richard Petty had a whole team of cousins, uncles, and such that ran their shop and crewed the cars.
Skipper
I agree, NASCAR has done great PR for their events and their drivers. I don’t like their current racing, but they do know how to run a business.
OTOH, F1 has done a horrible job of marketing in the U.S. The have generated plenty of interest in most of the world, but not here. It probably has something to do with the lack of american drivers to promote; Red Bull tried but that didn’t work out so well. F1 can’t even come up with a decent track to run a U.S. GP, the indy road course was terrible and they don’t seem to be making much of an effort to find something else (they don’t even have a U.S. race this year).
Hopefully, IRL/CART will get their act together and put together a credible series before everyone forgets who the are.
I’m sorry, you can keep thinking if you want, I’d like to see you at a place like Bristol or Martinsville with 42 other cars on a half mile track drive that thing like a sports car. Shoot, I’d like to see you at Talladega at 190 mph in a car that’s jumping all over the place among 42 others.
That’s not what I said. I said I could probably navigate a NASCAR car around a track at a moderate speed (maybe 8/10, just like in your local driving school) and not kill myself or wreck the car. That is a completely different thing than driving in competition with professional drivers. If you’ve ever participated in an on-track driving school (like an SCCA event), you will know what I’m referring to. I also suspect that you could do the same thing with some instruction. It’s those last few percent before you reach the limit that makes things very interesting.
OTOH, I very much doubt that you or I could get in a F1 car and survive a lap around a road course at any speed, you might as well put me in a F-18 and ask me to fly it off an aircraft carrier. In fact, I’m 5-9 and 170 pounds so I might not even fit in the thing. I might not be able to get it under power in a straight line without breaking it. If I did get it under power, I doubt I could modulate the throttle well enough to keep it on the track with cold tires at any speed (It’s not unusual to see a F1 driver spin off the track during the warm-up lap because they gave it a tad too much power). If I did get up to speed, I don’t know that I could survive 6 g’s of braking and stay conscious. The only way to get 6 g’s in a NASCAR car is to drive it into a wall. The average NASCAR driver (or just about anyone else) would probably end up in the hospital after a 2 hour F1 race, if they lived that long.
I was just pointing out that these two types of racing are not even close to being in the same league. It’s the difference between single-A baseball and starting for the yankees. Just the physical requirements will eliminate almost everyone. And with only 18 to 20 F1 rides in the world, people have a much better chance of becoming an astronaut or a NFL player than ever seeing the inside of one of those cars. BTW, driving an indy car at speed is no piece of cake either.
IMHO Touring Series car racing is real stock car racing, These cars are made from real production car.
I recall in the mid 90s when there was the North American Touring Series. That series had BMW, Honda, Ford, Dodge, and I think Toyota.
It was a big disappointment that series did not make it.
AFAIK, the only major U.S. series that is based on production cars now is the American Le Mans Series for sports cars (GT1 - corvettes and GT2 - mostly porsches). I would also like to see a major touring car series in the U.S. It seems like there are enough people driving “sports sedans” on the road that there would be some interest and plenty of sponsors. Why not endurance type racing for touring cars, that seems like great advertising for the manufacturers?
There’s also Grand Am racing (Rolex race series). Pontiac is in first in the GT category followed by Porsche, Mazda, Chevy, Ford, Ferrari, and BMW. There’s nothing quite as fine as a GXP-R eating a GT3 Cup for breakfast. I’m still hot about the Porsche team demolition derby a couple of years ago. GRRR!
BTW, Pontiac is also second in the DP class (Lexus is first), followed by Ford, Porsche and BMW.
Holy crap…I can’t believe this is going on as far as it has. This thread has turned into what sounds like school boys saying “is not”, “is to”! If you like NASCAR but not F1, well…thats what you like and theres nothing wrong with that. On the other hand if you like F1 but not NASCAR, well…thats what you like and theres nothing wrong with that either. This is comparing apples and oranges, the 2 cannot be fairly compared. There is a good chance that those on here trying to say one is better/more difficult than the other has never made a lap behind the wheel of any race car ( I said good chance, not I am sure they never have). For illustration purposes this is like comparing a 30-06 hunting rifle to a 22 short. the 2 both shoot but the 2 cannot be compared. The kind of racing I like is the kind that has rubber tires and an internal combustion engine. Sometimes I watch NHRA, NASCAR, open wheel anything and sometimes I want to watch a monster truck grab some big air, (you don’t have to like it but you cannot deny the engineering is marvelous) I am a race fan. If it has tires and an engine start it and go. This horse is dead, stop beating it.
You’re right, I forgot about Grand Am. For some reason I haven’t come across one of their races in a while, I usually watch if I do see them on the tube. They also run real cars, which makes it credible in my book.
The motorcycle guys really have it figured out, you can almost buy the same bike they are racing off the showroom floor, just like the “good old days” of auto racing, and it doesn’t cost $150K.