I'm not against seatbelts

Oh wow. So some of you want me to be able to legally smoke pot, but force me to wear a helmet when on a motorcycle. Just think about that for a minute. It’s either a “free country” or it isn’t. And it isn’t. We have laws. A totally free country would be anarchy.

As I explained to a former employee who advocated legalizing pot, I don’t have an issue with a guy smoking pot any more than I have an issue with a guy drinking a beer. But I don’t see a benefit to society by legalizing pot. There are plenty of vices for people to abuse already. I see no benefit for society in legalizing pot. Then I fired him a week later because he was smoking pot and getting stoned at work. But nah, it’s not addictive. Yet nicotine is. Gimme a break. The drug cartels? They’ll survive just fine if pot is legal by selling meth and heroine. Of course we could legalize those too. It’s a free country. Just as long as you wear your helmet on your scooter. :thinking:

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Sometimes bad stuff happens to good people, even people who fit your idea of “responsible.”

Could you be more judgmental?

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Sure. Just the obvious. People that care about the welfare of their kids or spouse make provisions in case bad things happen. Just a fact but no more judgmental than complaining about people not using seat belts.

At any rate I think this conversation is going to be closed soon.

I’d be fine with a law that said you don’t have to wear your helmet, but if you get in a wreck while not wearing one, no taxpayer dollars will be used to treat you. That might just mean you croak, but by not wearing a helmet you’re already saying that you’d rather die than wear one. Or maybe you’d get treated and then your wages would be garnished for the rest of your life to pay the taxpayers back.

Point being, there are an awful lot of attitudes lately where people think they should be able to do whatever they want and not face any consequences for it. That’s nuts. Sure, leave the helmet in the garage, but be ready to handle the elevated consequences of your choices.

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I really hate to keep this going but there are just so many inconsistencies in what is being said. So it would be OK to not treat someone (of course with taxpayer dollars which would be an uninsured at the ER) so what about a guy without a license at all? So someone that never had a license or has had it revoked would be better than someone not wearing a helmet? Or would it be OK to refuse an ER visit for them too?

Really when you start to go down this path of control, it get out of hand pretty fast.

You’re the one who advocates for the party that hates taxes. You tell me why taxpayers should be paying for helmetless people’s stupidity-based injuries.

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You’re probably more likely to be a drain on society if you wear a helmet anyway…because you might survive!

If you make wearing helmets a law to reduce the risk of injuries, why not outlaw motorcycles completely? A bike is an injury hazard in and of itself anyway.

I understand the concept, but it’s a slippery slope, in my opinion. Take your risks and deal with the consequences. Some take more risks than others. The risk takers have a higher chance of getting seriously injured and being a “burden”. Why not outlaw skydiving? Mountain climbing? Drag racing?

Why be upset that you have to foot the bill for a guy who didn’t wear a helmet and not get upset that you’re already footing the bill for umpteen people who can’t (or don’t want) to hold a job because they can’t pass a drug test? Or the guys twice my size I see daily at the scrapyard slinging scrap for an extra buck who are “disabled”?

I don’t think the helmetless rider disability claims or lost wages would amount to a drop in a bucket.

When I rode, I did wear a helmet 90% of the time fwiw. So I’m not advocating riding without a helmet. It’s a stupid practice, in my opinion. But so is smoking weed (which I’ve also done years ago). I just don’t see favoring one stupid practice over another just because it aligns with my or your particular view of freedom.

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I don’t hate taxes, I pay a lot of them. I just like to see it used effectively and efficiently which is often not the case. But I don’t assume that a guy getting injured without a helmet would be paid from tax money. Why would that be? Insurance sure but why tax money? I’d just bet a lot of these folks riding around on their Harleys now are pretty well financed and like most of us had life, health, disability, and cycle insurance and maybe partnership insurance too. Why assume that they would collect tax money unless they went on Medicare or Section 8?

Now just to be fair, I think folks should wear a seat belt and a helmet and I feel sorry for the parents of the kid that died because she didn’t have a seat belt on. Quite a waste. But just because you have a helmet on a cycle, doesn’t mean you won’t get injured or killed. Cycles are dangerous, period. My word processing salesman obviously didn’t have his arm and leg protected by a helmet and he was pretty much a vegetable from what I could tell. A suit of armor maybe would have helped. Maybe to be consistent, cycles should be banned instead.

…and your off-topic deflections would be the reason.

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As long as that’s the case, I don’t have a problem with riding without a helmet. I personally find it stupid, and wouldn’t do it, but if someone else wants to and it’s not going to negatively impact me, I don’t care.

My worldview tends to be that people have the right to do what they want as long as it doesn’t cause harm to others. Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose. Which is why I think helmetless riders should not be the beneficiaries of public dollars related to their head injuries.

Honestly I think there’s a case to be made for extending that concept to motorcycle riding in general, or at least requiring a stellar insurance package for riding - as in, half-million-dollar minimum payouts in the event of a catastrophic injury.

These people are voluntarily stripping every modern safety feature away and then driving more than a mile a minute next to multi-ton hunks of metal piloted by people browsing the internet instead of looking out the windshield. I’m not in favor of banning motorcycles, but I do think that perhaps a framework wherein the general public is not responsible for funding the consequences of your extreme risk-taking isn’t a bad idea.

As to why assuming they’ll take public money, I’ve got a family example. Guy I’m related to rode a motorcycle, got run off the road by a wrong-way driver, and broke his neck. Paralyzed from the chest down. He had a good job with “good” health insurance, but it was a physical job so that went away. Driver fled the scene and was never caught, so there’s no way to make him pay.

He had to get a new house to accommodate his wheelchair, paid for by the government, and his income is government disability checks. This was a guy who was doing everything right as far as being responsible, earning a living, being insured to legal minimums, etc. But driving that motorcycle was a risky decision, and he lost the gamble. Fortunately for him the taxpayers stepped in, but really there should have been an additional insurance policy that he had to pay for in order to ride that would have covered those expenses.

Yes, that insurance would be expensive, but so is injury insurance if you’re race car driver - and racers who don’t get the competition medical insurance/workers comp insurance often quickly find out that they aren’t covered by their regular insurance for injuries sustained on track.

Motorcycles represent a category of activity where it’s fairly cheap to get the hardware. Doing it right costs more money than people might expect, but it’s something that every rider should do as responsible adults, and because a lot of riders don’t do the responsible thing and the rest of us end up footing the bill, there’s an argument that doing it right should be required.

As a personal example, I have a camera drone. You can get a really good one for under $1,000. And lots of people get one and start buzzing it around without thinking about what might happen if they lose control of the drone and it crashes into someone or something expensive.

I didn’t do that - before my first flight I already had a hull-loss rider on my homeowner’s policy and a 2.5 million dollar liability insurance policy. Yes, it was an extra cost, but it was the responsible thing to do, and now if my drone loses connection with the transmitter and crashes into a Lexus convoy on the interstate, I’m covered. But what happens when the neighboring drone flier doesn’t do that, and causes a disaster? Insurance policies for flying drones should be mandatory just like they are for driving cars.

Seems insane to me that you wouldn’t require that for activities that have an enhanced likelihood of causing a disaster, including motorcycle riding.

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AH…Really? Go to ANY public hospital and ask them how much they spend on people who don’t have insurance. Then ask them where they get that money from.

Answer - TAX PAYERS. Some of it is direct funding…most is from tax cuts because of the public service they provide.

Exactly!
Hospitals are required–by law–to provide “Charity Care” (without regard to race, religion, or other factors) for uninsured people. If the hospitals weren’t reimbursed by state governments for this charity care, many–if not most–hospitals would go broke. Additionally, hospitals intentionally jack-up the prices that they charge insurance companies in order to offset their losses from caring for uninsured people.

So, yes, we all pay for the care–and the EXTENDED care–of uninsured people.

OK we went from risky behavior to the uninsured. Personally I always had disability insurance when I worked, in addition to life, health, car, dental, homeowners, etc. That covers loss of income if you become disabled for any reason. Even in college I had a renters policy that provided some liability coverage.

Bully for you. You’ve lived a very privileged life.

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It was really a privilege to weed plants at the greenhouse for 50 cents an hour. Everyone should try it.

You got paid to do chores? That’s nice.

Disability insurance is at least cheap. Every company I’ve worked for offered it. At most it cost me $5/wk.

And most companies I worked for also had life insurance options. Basic was free. Typical coverage was twice your salary. You could by more that was very cheap also.

When I did consulting I had to buy life ins. I was on my wife’s health insurance which was the big money saver. Decent health insurance for a family of 5 is over $20,000/yr. Company sponsored health coverage is far far cheaper. Especially the big companies that insure themselves. They just get someone like Blue Cross to manage it.

Yeah I guess. Weeded the tomato field, picked dead leaves off of geranium plants, cut the grass, unloaded truck loads of flower pots, re-potted plants, glazed green houses, helped deliver flowers, etc. Of course at 15 wasn’t much good for anything else except “chores” and couldn’t drive yet so needed a helper. Moved on after that to washing dishes for 75 cents an hour. I felt so privileged all the way to the bank, but then it was pretty much gone my first year of school, so did more “chores”.

Heh heh heh, so transparent. I never wore a helmet riding my bike to work because no one wore a helmet back then. Trying to remember if anyone died without a helmet? Not that I remember but one kid got his leg mangled. Stop, look, listen, is what we were taught.

If you didn’t see it, it didn’t happen.

That seems to be your basic line of thinking in every argument.

Yeah, I don’t know if you’re supposed to say why you flagged something or not. But this seems more like a generalized personal attack on Bing than anything else.

IMO, if you don’t agree with someone else’s views, then state your own and leave it at that.

Plenty of folks on here who I personally believe must live in bizarro world, but I try hard to respect their opinion. Or at least try not to be a short name Richard. No need for the passive aggressive hate in my opinion.

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