Idling engines bad for Mother Earth

To most experts, though, there’s a problem with the bird-mortality argument: The vast majority of research shows that wind turbines kill relatively few birds, at least compared with other man-made structures. The statistics are shocking if you consider just how many people are crying out against wind power for the birds’ sake:

Man-made structure/technology
Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)

Feral and domestic cats
Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]

Power lines
130 million – 174 million [source: AWEA]

Windows (residential and commercial)
100 million – 1 billion [source: TreeHugger]

Pesticides
70 million [source: AWEA]

Automobiles
60 million – 80 million [source: AWEA]

Lighted communication towers
40 million – 50 million [source: AWEA]

Wind turbines
10,000 – 40,000 [source: ABC]

Methane power plants can be turned on and off with relative ease compared to coal burning plants, and are the exact facilities that would supplement wind or solar facilities.

Note that these bird deaths are raptors, I doubt many house cats are killing golden eagles. And it’s not just unfortunate, it’s against the law, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act makes it illegal to kill these kinds of birds without a permit. The point is that wind turbines get a 100% free ride, while the federal laws that govern penalties for these deaths are religiously enforced with other engergy producers (Exxon was fined $600,000 for 85 bird deaths). Just another unrealized cost for windpower that’s conveniently ignored.

And the problem with gas turbine backup is how often it’s needed. Wind produces power in the spring and fall, we need it most in summer and winter. So wind is a VERY expensive source of ‘feel good’ electricity. We’d be better off with the gas turbines, just skip the wind power.

Oh no. Here comes “that” argument again.

First off, continually shutting down and restarting wny engine that’s not designed for it will prematurely wear out the starter assembly. And, depending on the driving environmemt, if the engine is never allowed to reach operating temperature it’ll prematurly wear out the engine as well. When I lived in North Dakota it was hard enough to get our engines to warm up in the winter without making it worse by constantly shutting them off.

Oh, and an engine that doesn;t remain at full operating temperature produces significantly higher emissions. The engine runs righer, the fuel doesn;t get as completely combusted, and the catalytic converter doesn;t work as effectively.

If you’re really concerned about mother earth, refocus your attentions on getting better emissions regulations for diesel truck engines. Especially those in local trucks, like dump trucks. Those things pump appalling amounts of pollutants into the air continuously for 8-16 hours every day, as opposed to the miniscule amount my engine pumps into the air 1 hour per day.

Let me add this about wind turbines and use of power off of the grid. Those turbine units going up around me are using grid power as I poke this into the keyboard and not a one of them will be in operation until next year at the earliest.

Why do I think that grid power is being consumed? Simply because the turbine heads rely on grid power to operate the computers and the red safety lamps on top. As of this very second the red safety lamps are flashing on the turbine heads that are already mounted (and not operative) along with the heads that are sitting out in the field on blocks with no hub and blades while awaiting their turn on the crane.

When I came home this evening there’s a string of them blinking away including the ones on the ground and one of the crews is even working on a tower tonight. More fuel consumption because they rely on contractors who tow out large diesel powered floodlamp trailers; not to mention several idling pickups with the headlamps being left on for additional illumination.

Euryale 1,clean coal is a oxymoron-always has been,always will-that being said the best most effective thing to do is use less energy and when it becomes cost effective, it will happen-Kevin

BD,hee,hee-Kevin

TSM,cash for clunkers?New trucks are much cleaner,but very few contractors can afford a fleet of new trucks.I noticed that the new Cat "Acert " engines have a road draft tube(enviromental no-no) but at the present time what are you going to do?Diesels feed the Nation.-Kevin

Idling the engine is not bad for a car in any appreciable way, assuming the engine is tuned right. Police and taxi fleets often spend hours a day idling, with no ill effects. In fact, in cold weather, it’s probably healthier on the car and the environment to idle the engine instead of shutting it off. A lot of engine wear occurs in the first few seconds after startup, until the oil gets flowing, especially with cold starts, though not as much with a hot restart. In colder weather, emissions will be high until the oxygen sensors and catalytic convertor get up to operating temperature, and they cool down very fast when it’s freezing or below outside.

Not that we will likely have much choice in the future, but for me, the systems on many current cars that shut off the engine at every traffic light are a deal breaker. I want the power available the second the light turns green, and IMHO, systems like these are just one more complex piece of gear that will probably fail early. Plus in cold weather keeping the battery charged and the heat running, and in hot weather the A/C running at full blast are benefits to a vehicle that keeps idling.

I likely have a better “carbon footprint” from just continuing to drive my current car instead of replacing it every few years than any deluded Prius driver, and will cheerfully pay for the extra gas I burn in idling my vehicle instead of shutting it off.

Kevin, I see th point you’re making, but the truth is that most fleets would not need to be replaced, only the engines rebuilt…and those trucks are made for quick and easy rebuild. I’m not suggesting that they meet the same standards as cars or even new trucks. The contractors run them with minimal maintenance for years, blowing out horrible amounts of black smoke (carbon, carbon monoxide, and unburned hydrocarbons). The chassis last indefinitely. But the engines should be cleaned up.

Meanwhile, we the owners of 4-banger cars that only run for an hour a day and produce almost no pollution, get hammered every year because an EVAP leak has been detected that might allow a hydrocarbon molecule to get out into the air.

As to the cost, that’s an operaing expense deductable from gross revenues. The fleet owners can afford to clean up their fleets a lot easier than the average hourly worker can afford to keep chasing ghosts in an EVAP system, as so many end up doing.

In short order, all cars will automatically shut off when not in motion. It can’t one too soon.

IMO though, it’s more important that drivers drive efficiently and use public transportation when ever they can then worry too muh about idling excessively.

kmccune,
As someone who used to measure air pollution for a living there is coal and cleaner coal. But not clean coal. It actually is not an oxymoron. It is not even that hard to do. Just means rebuilding plants, not lame refits.

Mr.E -Go look at a strip mine or an ash pond-Kevin (Clean?)

Texases,
One point you totally miss about wind power. Its not ABOUT YOU. In New england we have different seasonal patterns of wind. As does oregon. The reason exxon gets fined for bird death is because the OIL IS SUPPOSED TO STAY IN THE PIPE. Thats why it is a spill as opposed to just shipping the oil on the surface of the ocean. The bird deaths on the newest generation of trubines(ie the last 6 years) are lower than bird deaths due to building strikes. The new gen are not the Altamont pass type which are 40 years old that green nuts keep whinning about when it comes to noise and bird strikes. If you cant get a grip at least get the facts right.

@wuryale1 -
Getting nasty, are you? Not sure why. I presented 100% facts, now you don’t like them. Sorry. And many of the wind farms are in areas exactly as I described, with high generation in spring and fall, little in summer.

As for Exxon, the fines did not result from a spill. A storage tank’s bird-protection netting got ripped, and the birds found their way into the tank. I have no problem with wind farms if the OBEY THE LAW and pay the appropriate fines. But they don’t, they get a free ride, to generate subsidized energy with little total benefit.

Well please give them a chance Mr.T,because the market will take care of them if the profit isn’t there .One of the problems as you are well aware of is that the very places that are good from a wind energy standpoint are often the places the birds use as a migratory route.While I’m not the adherent of wind energy I used to be ,I believe there is a place for it.Suprisingly enough around here seems to have good potential for wind energy,but the Supervisors were scared to death of the prospect and enacted enough laws and restictions to pretty much " nip it in the bud.
Aromatic hydrocarbons(as well as other sources of carbon based fuel) are pretty nasty business,we do need to start searching for some reasonable supplements and alternatives for the future.I believe the nuclear genie can be harnessed(the only thing we have tofear is fear its self"-Kevin

@Kmccune,
That I agree with. We only know a few things. As a geologist, The oil is not going to last my childs lifetime. As my prior environmental work For 4 years as state monitor, Coal is not clean from the old plants and not great from the few new ones but better. The pollution from hydrocarbons in the air, soil and water. This makes people sick and destroys fresh water just the same as mountain top removal does with coal. Hey Its just my 2c don’t get bent.

I drove through LA in 1968 and the visibility was limited to the second light pole ahead on the road. Beyond that the smog totally blocked the view. Despite all the “sky is falling” warnings from American corporations this country forced Detroit to build cleaner automobiles and hopefully the currently proposed tighter CAFE standards will be successful in further improving air quality while cutting our driving costs. I appreciate your concern for the rest of us Jane. For the most part late model cars are relatively clean at idle and if stopped at a traffic light or for any stop of less than 3 +/- minutes it’s probably just as well to leave the engine running. But plant a tree if you get a chance.

No bent Mr E, one of my better friends is a geologist,with a Doctorate and we have had some very good dicussions on Divers matters(he is a great teacher) he has sourced a lot of the springs around here and has a good handle on the aquafir not to mention the various caves he has crawled through,he showed me a picture of a well casing down through a cave,mankind has meddled fairly deep,since we have bent nature to our will,there will be consequences.When we first disturbed the ore bodies to refine metal,to better our lives with,we have changed the balance-micro evolution has proven how adaptable life can be.But sometimes it cant keep pace with the changes we have wrought,We wont destroy the Earth,but we sure can mess up the “skin of the peach” we live on.So my advice to the ever burgeoning Human Race is,tread lightly,be careful-for this is a pretty unique place we live,for Heavens sake dont foul our nest-Kevin

@mccune ; the oil will last well into your great-grandchildren’s life. Except it may not be US produced oil. Venezuela and Canada together could provide the world with oil for the next 100 years.

However, this oil will be more expensive to produce, and would be imported, putting strain on the US balance of payments. The only reason Venezuela does not produce more is that Chavez has chased everyone, except the Chinese, out, and other foreign talent and money is hard to attract under the current regime.

Minerals and hydrocarbon reserves are defined by the economics (cost) of producing them; not by their actual presence. At $20 per barrel, the reserves are relatively small; at $200 a barrel they are huge!! At $200 a barrel, even the US have very large reserves.