I’ve posted this maybe once or twice before but it has been eating at me of late. Seeing how we in the USA always seem to just get things slightly wrong with our vehicles. I mean this in the power plant selection. We have been able to extract FAR more power per cubic inch…or per cc however you like to state it. What do we do with this new found power? We just make larger vehicles with more horse power from a smaller engine. INSTEAD OF using a small vehicle body using a small engine that makes adequate power while returning big MPG numbers. Kind of the way they do in Europe.
It just burns me up that we develop all this Hybrid Technology that has the ability to return big MPG numbers and we fudge it all up by installing it into Big Heavy SUV’s and Trucks and couple the Hybrid to V6 Engines!!! Why don’t we use it in smaller body vehicles and couple it to a 4 cylinder or even 3 cylinder engines that partially assist the driven wheels and or charge the battery packs?
We seem to waste the advantage of being able to extract more power per cubic inch in so many ways.
What has me burned up this time…the same reason as last time…Is the Honda Civic Diesel. Which is in Europe and Europe ONLY cruising around the highways for years returning OVER 60 MPG…Everyday…for years. In fact the people who just reported on this little Civic said that their trip computer reported 65.3 MPG and 710 Miles to a Tank. The tank only holds 13 Gallons! This is ridiculous people. What are we doing here in the USA? It just really pisses me off.
I’m about to obtain a Black or Grey Market Honda Diesel and install it in one of the Honda body’s of my choice. I could do the same thing with any Toyota as well…they haven’t been out of the game over there by any means. Its time we pulled our collective heads out of our asses and do whats right over here. I’m really getting sick of this crap. This makes me especially angry since most of this is caused by politicians and idiots in Washington.
I will just have to create what I want over here in the states and keep it to myself. I am capable for certain…its time for a change in my MPG…even if its just for fun
Maybe they don’t because there isn’t high demand (there are already high-mpg priuses and similar for example, that aren’t the most popular), or because lowering prices already supposedly mean less tax money for rebuilding bridges and infrastructure. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/17/states-look-to-hike-gas-taxes-iowa-south-dakota-georgia-tennessee/21708125/)
Just my 2 cents and not trying to stir up a ruckus but the country has become a nation of whiners.
No matter what type of car, engine, fuel source, or even the method of generating electrical power for the home some group is going to snivel to high heaven about it.
When George Bush was in office he brought up the use of hydrogen for powering vehicles and got ripped by environmentalists for doing so and who claimed it would kill the Earth.
Pick a subject; it’s whineable. (New word for the vocabulary…)
I don’t know if you watch BBC’s Top Gear but some years ago they did a run with 3 diesel cars from the south of France to Blackpool U.K. with the caveat being they were only alloted one tank of fuel each. There was a Subaru diesel, VW diesel, and a Jaguar twin turbo diesel.
I seem to remember the first 2 were getting in the 60-70+ MPG range and the Jag was knocking down about 40 or more with the latter was getting driven hard.
Yep,they could do the same thing with trucks,but chose not to,You watch in the next 5 years when fuel supplies tighten up(which they will)when China starts using up petrol that was at one time freely availible to us,this OPEC bunch are not our friends(and we are and probaly cannot produce enough domestic gas and diesel-for some reason we cant use the clean burning Methanol for personal transportation.
Some Folks are still mooneyed about this so called abiotic oil,real pie in the sky and wishful thinking,I dont know if our military is stationed close enough to the unfriendly oil producing countries to prevent another oil embargo or not(Hey Folks,it not about Freedom, its about “a full tank of freedom”.I have better things to spend my hard earned dollars on then gasoline.
Really it’s just the market speaking. There is no demand for small diesel vehicles in the US. In Europe, gasoline is 3-4x as expensive as in the USA. So people drive less and they want cars that make every Euro count. Also, streets are narrower, and there are not as many ‘wide open spaces’ as in the USA. (not counting the Autobahn) People in the US don’t want a tiny diesel that can’t get out of its own way when accelerating. Also, unless you use very low sulfur fuel and have expensive emission controls, gas engines are actually less polluting than diesels.
kmccune may be right–if oil starts skyrocketing again, people in the US may rethink our love for gas-guzzling SUVs and muscle cars, but for now, with gas under $3, people are going to keep buying big gas engines.
The reason is that there is a low demand for diesels right now and the EPA would more than likely pile on so many restrictions that the diesel would lose any gain in mpg with all it’s required emissions control equipment. It would more than likely suffer such power loss as to be dangerous. I remember the 1.6 liter gas engine of years past that was dangerous just because it took forever to merge into interstate traffic.
The reason is that there is a low demand for diesels right now and the EPA would more than likely pile on so many restrictions that the diesel would lose any gain in mpg with all it's required emissions control equipment.
VW sells a Diesel TODAY. It’s not that expensive. A guy I work with owns a VW wagon. Paid less the $22k for one a couple years ago. He’s gotten over 45mpg highway. You can buy a brand new Jetta TDI for under $25k.
Locally we pay $0.80 to $1 more/gallon for diesel. The fuel MPG is really excellent already with Honda and gasoline versions.
I don’t see how it adds up personally.
My wife/I are peeking at VW Golf Sportwagon and the EPA MPG between diesel and base motor is not hugely different. 31/43(diesel) vs 25/36 AND you pay $3000 more for the diesel upfront. Every visit to the fuel pump locally you pay an extra $0.60-$1/gallon. That is the equilvanent of 20% less efficiency in money which equalizes the MPG exactly the same on paper.
Locally we pay $0.80 to $1 more/gallon for diesel.
I’ve said this at least 10 times in this forum. When gas prices are in flux (up or down) like they are now…for some reason Diesel prices are always higher then even high test gas. When gas prices stabilize for a few months then Diesel prices drop to about mid-grade gas prices. 5 months ago when gas prices were stable - Diesel was selling for below mid-grade gas. Doesn’t matter if gas prices stabilize at a higher price or lower price…In the past 30+ years I’ve been watching gas prices…Diesel has ALWAYS been in the range of gas prices. It use to be cheaper then regular until the Ultra Clean Diesel started be produced (thank you EPA for that one).
Diesel normally is more expensive that premium gas around here. Currently, it is the same as mid-grade. Apparently the recent spike in gas prices didn’t cause much, if any, increase in diesel prices.
There are currently more than 20 cars available with diesel power, and many trucks that aren’t documented at Fueleconomy.gov. When manufacturers note sufficiently high sales to justify their entry into the market, they will do it. It does cost quite a bit to make a drive train meet US emissions regulations. They won’t make that decision lightly.
Its clearly apparenty that we will soon be thinking differently that may happen suddenly or may creep up and slowly happen. I think the latter but who knows really.
Its also clear that many of the USA are Not very familiar with todays Diesels. They are torquey and fast and can really haul some ass. They do far more than get out of their own way nowadays. VW does make a fine example today which has me wondering where people come up with a mindset that this isnt “doable” with a Diesel. Not only is it doable…its been done.
Id be willing to wager if we snuck some of these new Diesels under the hoods of many a driver today…they would not only not notice but they would start wondering why their car is running so well and why they havent filled the tank in so long LOL
It could be like a surprise game show type thing LOL
While the low end torque was nice of the diesel TDI and much more abundant 236 lb ft the other inexpensive motor offers below. A really nice flat torque curve just less and a tad more HP with 170HP vs 150HP in diesel.
The above is why diesels are not catching as well because gasoline technology is advancing so much and massive gap before now is narrowing.
Why does it bother you so much that we don’t all drive diesels?
The market response would suggest that most of us in the U.S. don’t share your love of diesels. So why can’t we drive what we want? Why should we have to justify this?
Ask as many times as you like. Most of the marketplace here prefers gasoline engines. That preference requires no justification to diesel lovers anymore than liking diesels deserves justification to gas lovers.
Gas is $2.55 and diesel is $2.85 here
In Europe diesel is taxed at a lower rate than gasoline making it even cheaper to drve. Here diesel is taxed at a higher rate and is not available at every gas station. This nullifies the cost savings Of the higher mpg of a diesel vehicle. Also, in Europe they are rethinking their reliance on diesel do to particulate matter still being emitted even from so called cleaan diesels. I think many people still remember old diesels lack of power, noise and dirty exhaust. I hear the diesel pickups and they are loud and that makes me not consider diesels for a car. I know they aren’t loud, but it is my prejudice against them. Also, to get power out of one it must be turbocharged. I never want a turbocharged vehicle. It’s just another expensive part to break.
The bottom line is the politicians are afraid to raise the tax rate on gasoline (and diesel fuel) to the level it should be, about the same as Europe. This would have huge benefits. Less pollution as people switched to smaller more efficient cars. More money to repair our rusting bridges.
But the politicians can’t seem to get up the courage…
Diesel mileage Has historically been so much better than gas mileage that diesel fuel that cost 40 cents more per gallon than regular gasoline is still cost effective, assuming that the initial car cost is comparable.
Europe is starting to turn away from diesels because of soot emissions… but…here;
In the US diesel is taxed more, so it costs more, in Europe it is taxed less and costs less.
In the US, the refining process makes more gas than diesel, in Europe, equal amounts gas and diesel.
In the US, EPA emissions are more stringent on diesels than in Europe for particulates and NOX so we need AD-Blue and particulate filters Europe doesn’t need so services costs are higher.
In the US gas is cheap and easily available, diesel oil is nasty, expensive and sold at truck stops (perception).
And contrary to popular beliefs (and proveable on internet forums), car diesel engines don’t last longer than gas engines and they aren’t cheaper to service.
So Honda, and others, don’t bother to spend the large amounts of money to certify Euro diesels for the US market for the few thousand they might sell here.
THAT’S why you can’t buy a Honda diesel in the US.
At TSM…Who on earth wanted us ALL to be driving Diesels? Drive whatever you guys want…but dont deny me access to some of the most frugal and exciting Diesel powerplants that exist today. I want to be able to buy Honda’s and or Toyota’s small Diesel vehicles. I dont want everybody to have to or want to drive them…at all. They already exist, they’re clean, they’re fast and they get great MPG… I dont see a downside.
Everyone keeps mentioning how cheap gas is…Do you really think its going to remain so? One day it will all explode in our faces…gas will cost 5-6-8 per gallon and then we will really hear it. We here in the states enjoy cheap gasoline…and we are one little politician away from us losing that position… or one war, or conflict…or something political. It could happen overnight with no warning either. All these comments about how its not that big of a savings or isnt a savings at all…are all built upon a false sense of security. We are one screwup away from gasoline being as expensive here as it is all over the rest of the globe. Wait till China starts their Oil addiction in full force…watch what happens then.
I dunno…its just when I see that it is possible to get 60+ MPG…right now…Today…and I cant…It bothers me. That is all I was saying… I dont want everybody to drive a diesel…I dont care what you drive. Just dont prevent me from being able to drive what I want to drive…when the vehicles exist right now.
Also…I dont even need to buy Diesel fuel with a Diesel engine… I had a 99.5 VW Golf TDi… It had its standard Diesel tank…and an additional 15 gallon tank where the spare tire used to be…in that tank was filtered waste vegetable oil…that I got for FREE… So I would drive on the Diesel tank till my engine was Hot…hit a switch…and then be driving on my veggie oil in the trunk. The car got about 500 miles to the tank of Diesel…which was 13 gallons…then I could switch over to the veggie oil…and drive another 600 or so… Around 1100 miles before filling up again…Try doing that without a bathroom break. See what your calculators tell you after you factor 15 gals of free veggie oil. LOL… Just saying…its possible…Ive done it, and so have many others.
In fact the people who just reported on this little Civic said that their trip computer reported 65.3 MPG and 710 Miles to a Tank. The tank only holds 13 Gallons!
The math says 55 mpg (US). The report must be from England with Imperial gallons.