The reason there’s no diesel Civic in the US is the same reason there’s a Porsche SUV:
If we buy it they will make it.
With direct injection and variable valve timing and lift it’s possible for a gas engine to have nearly as much compression as a diesel.
It’s also possible to eliminate the throttle and its associated pumping losses.
It’s all a matter of refinement and cost.
I imagine one day there could be a flex-fuel engine that will run on gas, diesel, alcohol or any combination.
The problem with hydrogen is where does the hydrogen come from?
It’s possible to run an internal combustion on hydrogen. Doesn’t have to be fuel cells.
If hydrogen supply were viable there would be fleet vehicles running on it like there are now running on methane, propane etc.
That right there would kill the deal for me. I would never even consider owning a VW. It’s off my radar for a variety of reasons and all of them are bad.
There is work being done on compression ignition gasoline engine right now. Think 16:1+ compression ratio engines supercharged with the thermal efficiency of a diesel with far cleaner exhaust. It is in the works.
You will see this and more turbo and supercharged gas engines before you see more diesels.
As for the price of fuel in Europe (the UK), it is $6.53 or so a gallon not because it COSTS $6.53 a gallon but because it is TAXED at $4.53 a gallon on top of its cost of $2.00 a gallon. We are only taxed about $0.50 total fed plus state depending on where you live.
HB,make the swap,there are a couple of updates I would like to do also(I’m also watching the proposed diesel CUV pickup by Hyundai(190 HP 300 lbs ft of torque projected 35 mpg)would be perfect for me in AWD flavor-I want one !
The United States, unlike other countries, is set up for gasoline. We refine more gasoline then we can use and export some. We use diesel for long haul and the added pressure of lot’s of dirty diesel in cars does not make sense. It does not make sense for the auto companies to spend all the extra money to conform to clean air standards in the future. The committment is there for gasoline, not diesel in cars. You will see some, but IMho, it is more for specialty and marketing then profit making over time for the big car makers.
The auto company that really has an idea is Toyota. They are building fuel cell, hybrids and gasoline cars. No diesel cars in the future and only reluctantly in their trucks for this market. They have said, it’s too much money and too little profit for them, for compact trucks, let alone cars. Toyota said it would add $3 k for the emmisions equipment for the U.S…they won’t do it.
If you sneak some of these new diesels under the hood, it would cost too much money and the return on the higher price of fuel will not be worth it. It varies a lot from state to state, but in our state, it’s not worth the added expense unless you actually use a diesel for it’s best use…heavy loads of long duration.
Fair enough, Honda. I withdraw my statement and apologize for the misunderstanding. It sounded like you were frustrated because diesels had not become common here, rather than just being frustrated by not being able to get one that’s being offered in other countries.
I think db4690 is a qualified Mercedes mechanic so he can correct me if I am wrong. I have the impression that for the M-B diesel to meet EPA rules they have a separate tank that contains an additive and costs quite a bit to refill. If true why would one bother ?
Pretty much every diesel car bigger than the Jetta (bigger VWs, MBs, BMWs, Ram pickup, etc.) requires the additive. According to wiki:
“Diesel exhaust fluid (DEF), commonly referred to as AdBlue in Europe, Australia, and New Zealand, and standardised as ISO 2224 is an aqueous urea solution made with 32.5% high-purity urea (AUS 32) and 67.5% deionized water. DEF is used as a consumable in selective catalytic reduction (SCR) in order to lower NOx concentration in the diesel exhaust emissions from diesel engines.”
I remember that our town had a cab company with a 1959 Plymouth cab in its fleet that was equipped with a Perkins diesel engine. Apparently it didn’t work out very well because the replacement cabs were gasoline powered. Some time in the late 1970s or early 1980s, Mazda offered a car equipped with a diesel engine. It wasn’t on the market very long, so apparently it didn’t work out very well. A friend of mine bought one and the dealer installed the wrong oil filter when the oil was changed and the engine was damaged. I know my friend had quite a battle to get the dealer to install a new engine. He got rid of the car just after that.
Volvo, it’s been a few years since I worked at the Benz dealership . . . I’m a civil service fleet mechanic nowadays
But yes, the exhaust fluid was in a separate tank, which had to be be refilled at regular intervals
It’s available at many/most auto parts stores nowadays, but I have no idea how expensive it is, or how long it lasts. I assume . . . possibly incorrectly . . . that the cost is reasonable, simply because of the fact that it’s more common that it used to be, and therefore maybe the cost has come down, versus a few years ago
The reason I don’t know for certain is because I never owned a diesel vehicle, nor do I currently have plans to buy one
I don’t mean to sound offensive to anybody, by the way
Europe is pushing hard now to tax and reduce diesel sales because of pollution -
“More than 10 million motorists who were “betrayed and misled” into buying diesel cars have been warned that they face higher costs as the European Union puts pressure on Britain to cut air pollution levels.
It comes as Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, announced plans to charge diesel drivers an extra £10 to drive in the capital – a measure that could be copied by as many as 18 other cities.
For more than a decade, motorists buying diesel cars have enjoyed tax breaks because the cars produce lower levels of carbon dioxide and are more fuel efficient.
Now, Britain is being sued by the European Commission for breaching air pollution limits, because emissions from diesel vehicles are contributing to tens of thousands of premature deaths each year.
Senior Conservatives are understood to be lobbying the Government to increase road taxes on diesel vehicles to bring them into line with petrol, although ministers have ruled out such a move in this parliament.”
I dunno, I had a diesel once and I sure wouldn’t be racing to the dealer to buy another one. Then a correction: In Europe gasoline is about the same price as we pay in the US but the added tax on gas is what causes them to pay $8+ a gallon equivalent. It pays for their social programs and they hope to avoid a repeat of WWII by bribing the under class.
Exhaust fluid is not unique to Mercedes, almost all modern day diesels use Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF). But a new pickup and it will have a DEF tank. It’s in a separate tank because it’s not fuel. It’s a urea solution that’s injected into the exhaust to aid the catalytic converter in cleaning up tailpipe emissions.
@db4690 may correct me here, but I think one big gripe about Mercedes DEF systems is that if the tank ran low the car would not start until filled.
I frequent a truck forum too and the idea of having a diesel is a big issue with these guys as well. The problem is, it’s all talk with many of them. As much as they really like the idea of clattering about the countryside while getting 30 mpg in a truck, they still wouldn’t spend the money for one.
There are just so many “toys” one can have and as we all have wishes as far as cars are concerned, only Jay Leno types actually act on them. The car companies know this. That is why they enter this field with enough trepidation to make them few and hard to find.
The idea behind diesels being reliable was sound many years ago as gas engines didn’t last that long and required frequent tune ups. Now, gas engines last longer then the bodies they go into and don’t need tune ups for 100k miles. It’s getting harder to rationalize one enough to get the wife all worked up about learning which filler handle to use.
I expect over time that diesel will be as plentiful as gasoline. Here as natural gas continues it’s home heating oil take over, it makes sense economically.
This is the big story…this turns the corner. Still, it will take a while buying new as the oil burners need replcement
Dressing up like a NASA liquid O2 Booster fueling technitians makes me wonder when/ if it will ever make it to diesels for comsumer use before electrics. The statement in the article caught my eye right off the top…natural gas BOOM (explosion in my mind) also gives me concern about it’s safty compared to diesel which is very safe in truck and marine applications.
Wow Dag,some are biting big time-now a question.do these trucks use a small amount of diesel to ignite the gas charge?Caterpillar used to do this in their {gas" engines,the Navy has fooled with CNG for years and the Propane companies have used propane for a long time,farmers out west used to have tractors equipped to run on Natural gas(if they had a gas well on their property) so maybe OPEC will have to start paying their way now-Kevin
A good percentage of fork lifts in factories and warehouses are LP powered. Start and run just like a gasser except you gotta change the tank to refuel.
(explosion in my mind) also gives me concern about it’s safty compared to diesel which is very safe in truck and marine applications.