Our discussion only centers on diesels being the ideal motor for an SUV which I disagree with as a patent general statement. They are only ideal if the vehicle is truck based and they are used for intended heavy use or used in specific ways to take advantage of them...which is few vehicles
Just because you say it’s so doesn’t mean it is. I noticed you NEVER addressed my argument. You just keep repeating yourself.
Finally. Here is the proof they are not the ideal motor for the vast majority of SUVs on the road...are you ready..,THEY DON'T make them available.
GEE…REALLY??? That’s probably the dumbest argument yet. Of COURSE they aren’t available. I NEVER said they were. YOU’RE the one who first argued that diesels would NOT be a good choice for a SUV. It was a hypothetical argument then…and it is now.
There are certain vehicles that would be GREAT for diesels…SUV’s are one of them. Great torque…MUCH BETTER GAS MILEAGE. You can’t compare a diesel SUV to a small 4-cylinder vehicle. People like me - who buy an SUV to actually use it’s capabilities. Hauling 4 adults and all gear…plus towing a camper. I’m not about to buy another vehicle for the times I’m NOT towing or going skiing. So give me an SUV that can do the things I need about 15 - 20 times a year…AND give me MUCH BETTER gas mileage. Now if they can make a hybrid that can tow Class III…let me know. Only the full-size hybrids can tow Class-III. And that kinda defeats the purpose of good gas mileage.
@MikeinNH It’s all a matter of economics. Overseas where gasoline is very expensive (high taxes) and diesel is taxed less nearly all vehicles used for business are diesels. I’ve ridden in Toyota Land Cruisers, Mitsubishi SUVs, Nissans, and many other pickups and SUVs that were diesel powered. Only is Saudi Arabia, where gas is dirt cheap, do they not use a lot of diesels.
Gasoline is just too cheap in the US and making diesel compatible with US emission standards costs a lot.
I guess you put me in the category of being as dumb as all the engineers, marketers, bean counters and CEOs of all the car companies from Toyota to GM to Ford to Nissan to you name it who make small to midsize SUVs and NONE offer a diesel options and yet, they are only found in the most expensive models from a handful of esoteric makers.
We all just happen to feel that it’s too expensive a technology to Put in vehicles that cannot realize the full potential of a diesel when there are motors out there that are much cheaper and the need for putting it in any but the most specialized vehicles is a waste of money which does not make for an ideal motor for an SUV.
I have owned and own several and I plowed with them, towed with them, dumped with them, excavated with them, boated with them and even traveled with them in small cars. I would not think of buying one in an average SUV, even though I frequently tow boats and neither do several of my engineer friends and other other workers who have used them that I know, any more then I would put a gas motor in my tractors.
For SUVs that are not used for plowing and towing, Hybrids do make MORE sense, especially in areas where diesel as a fuel is not as readily available.. BTW, why don’t you just go out and buy one that IS available, Huh ? If they are so great, you have a need and they make them in your size, why isn’t one sitting in your yard ?
I guess you put me in the category of being as dumb as all the engineers, marketers, bean counters and CEOs of all the car companies from Toyota to GM to Ford to Nissan to you name it who make small to midsize SUVs and NONE offer a diesel options and yet, they are only found in the most expensive models from a handful of esoteric makers.
One of the BIGGEST reasons they DIDN’T offer a diesel in the US is because of the laws regarding the low-sulfur diesel that recently has been passed. Their current lineup of diesels would NOT run very well on this gas…if at all. Nissan, Toyota, GM and Ford are all doing R&D into Diesels. It may take a while. We’ll see.
For SUVs that are not used for plowing and towing, Hybrids do make MORE sense, especially in areas where diesel as a fuel is not as readily available..
I’ll agree with that…but a LOT of people use SUV’s for towing. The most frequent places I go camping with my pop-up…I’d say well over 50% of the other campers there are towed by SUV’s. Most are frequent campers like we are. And this is just 2-3 camp grounds in NH and CT. So from my small view…if you multiply that by the THOUSANDS of other camp grounds out there…a lot of people use their SUV’s for towing.
And that’s just camping…I also own a utility trailer that I use several times a year hauling stuff the the dump…getting soil…bark-mulch…going and many other jobs it’s great for. So all-in-all I probably put OVER 5k miles a year on truck while towing something. And I don’t believe I’m alone.
I do my 4Runner and RAV (lighter boats and utility trialer)…and if a diesel were available tomorrow for the 4runner and I were in the market, I would not buy one. The $30k vehicle would suddenly be $40k and in the most expensive line and the pay back would not be worth it. I know you need to idle them much more and take special measures in the winter, travel where the fuel is available etc. ALL my diesels have suffered from that affliction. Most importantly, the diesel will in most cases last longer then the truck body. My neighbor with a ford diesel which has severe body cancer and the motor is just broken in at 180k. Great motor, sure, but the truck is just an uninspectable situation from being useless. So again, not ideal as you need to put very high mileage on it compared to a gas motor to make it worthwhile, or work the “bejesus” out of it. Neither is normally done to the vast majority of SUVs. People buy trucks when they really work vehicles and the crew cab diesels are the best combinations now for heavy towing…not SUVs.
Now, when Toyota offers a small PU with a diesel for under $25K, count me interested. But not an SUV. My wife uses our SUVs and asking her to only drive where there is diesel fuel is too inconvenient for her. In today’s gas motors with 100k tune up intervals, the difference in maintenance and longevity compared to rust belt residing SUVs and my UNwillingness to keep a vehicle longer then 10 to 15 years, and the initial cost, makes a diesel SUV low on my and most peoples list. And the best reason why it’s not ideal here in the good old US of A, is your own discription of the problem with pollution laws. WE have been waiting and still have a while to go before diesels are cheap enough and effective enough to be considered, ideal…not there, not here, not now !
So, when are you planning to buy a diesel given your need and affection for the motor ? THe ideal motor is the electric which suffers from the same affliction…too expensive to be practical for the use we would give it.
The $30k vehicle would suddenly be $40k and in the most expensive line and the pay back would not be worth it.
Maybe. The cost difference that much in Europe. And if Diesels become more available…the cost would drop. I also put a LOT of miles on my truck (over 30k annually).
As for problems with diesels…I know one guy who has an old Mercedes 4-cylinder turbo diesel. It’s not approaching 500k miles…Never had a problem with that engine. Always started for him…even in the dead of winter in upstate NY. I would think Toyota or Nissan would build a good reliable diesel.
We’ll see. Now if they could make mid size SUV Hybrid that could tow Class III…I would be interested in that too. But they don’t.
IMHO, you can’t count all diesels as reliable. Even some with the best motors from MB and other European brands, have enough trouble to warrant staying away from because of problems elsewhere. I have a neighbor who went through 3 VW diesels as he figuratively commuted between ( obviously not daily) between his place on the lake and Florida. When he started flying, he never touched a diesel again. They are worth it for very high mileage and work. According to him, he had too many problems with the rest of the car to warrant having a VW diesel he didn’t put very high mileage on.
Diesels I find are age related. We averaged 15 k per car while we worked. After retirement, one car may go 12 k, while the 4 Runner, less then 10k per year…now down to 7500. That’s not unusual for older retirees. We spend more time flying ! Diesels for us, are a pain in the neck, and just not worth the fixed income investment.