@littlemouse Oh, I don’t know. Twenty-one mph on a fat tire with a backpack on flat ground. Not bad for an old man. 'Sides, I don’t want to get all sweaty before work.
Good jab, though.
Wow, you weren’t even going uphill? 
Mousse…you are absolutely wrong…the amount accrued in tickets is not and should not be a factor in police pay. You may be mistaking confusing what happens in an incompletely observed happening at the local level with what happens at the state and federal. We all watch way too many dirty Harry cop shows and get our opinions from there. Everyone things that’s all cops do…write tickets.
Sorry dagosa, I had a little chuckle at that. I do not mean to suggest that there are cops who only write tickets or that ticket revenues are sequestered to go directly to pay those exact cops. If I have misinterpreted what you said please feel free to correct me.
What I was saying is this:
There is a certain number of man hours alloted to watching the roads. Lets say this is x man hours. X man hours are fulfilled by y cops. So there are these extra y cops out there because the roads need watching. Watching the roads brings in z revenues. So my guess/hope is:
z - salary of y = 0ish
I know cops do all sorts of things. They do one, two or more things at once. They catch people while off-duty, on duty. I realize there are other expenses too such as vehicles, maintenance, gas etc. And these revenues probably go all over the place and come back as a sad excuse of the original revenues. Also though, like I was saying, I think preventing accidents prevents expenses too. I’m sure there is a universe of calculations though. Maybe I’ll look into it someday lol.
I don’t watch any shows, except I did watch Car 54 Where Are You? reruns when I was little. And dragnet. But those don’t influence my perception of cops 
"It may be a crime, but it’s unenforceable. There’s no way it SHOULD hold up in court. "
What do you mean it is "unenforceable" If it can't be enforced how does it get into court?
Do you mean that since you can't catch each and every one who breaks the law, we should not have the law? We outlaw murder, but since we can't stop all murders, should we eliminate the law?What do you mean it is “unenforceable” If it can’t be enforced how does it get into court?
What I mean…is…just because a cop gives you a ticket…doesn’t mean you are automatically found guilty. Most judges will through out any tickets where you’re driving only 1mph over the speed limit. And not only that the cop will be chastised by the judge for wasting the courts resources for doing so…and rightfully so. I’d like to hear about a town/state that will routinely hand out tickets for only 1mph over the speed limit.
Wow. If 30 is the law, 31 is a crime. If we don’t stop them at 31 and put them in jail, they’ll be driving 70 in a 30 before you know it. I find that so incomprehensible and I’m showing my age, but that was the same logic that got 50,000 kids killed in Viet Nam. If we don’t stop them here, they’ll overrun the whole world. Regardless of the obvious Myers Briggs profiles here, the reality is that laws are not black and white and there is considerable room for application. Laws are to provide order in our society. Its a law to pay sales tax on internet purchases too in most states, but that’s just one of many ignored and unenforceable laws. Our law professor used to tell us that a law is no longer a law when the majority of the people ignore it.
Gee, how people can be so nit-picky about speed laws, or any other laws for that matter; it’s just plain ridiculous! GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF only handed down 10 basic laws to MOSES for all mankind to follow, known as the TEN COMMANDMENTS. If we ALL abide by those VERY SIMPLE rules, EVEN MOST OF THE TIME, the world would be a much better place. And when someone DOES commit a crime, they sould receive JUSTICE, TEMPERED WITH MERCY. Don’t get me wrong, I’m NOT saying that the worst criminals should get off easy; NOT AT ALL. But, come on, law-enforcement people should use good common sense when dealing with small infractions. Where I come from, you have to exceed the speed limit by 5 mph or more to even get a cop to look at you, and that’s how it should be. In plain English, just don’t drive like a MORON, and you should be OK.
Mousse…I hear what you are saying but, such the comparison break down you make only has any relevancy if the funds collected had ANY influence on salaries and capital expenditures of a police department. If any amount from that source goes back into the general fund for a municipality, it is a discrace if they are in anyway influential or even a topic of discussion in either the police budget or any other. It’s like saying…geee, the brownies had a good cookie sales year, let’s buy a new police cruiser. If you think that is a far fetched relation ship between receipts from one source to aid another, then you’re on your way to understanding how fines and a police budget should be viewed. The best indicator as to how well a force is doing should better be seen by how few summons are written.
Unless directly instructed to work in a specific problem area, the usual 8 to 12 hour shift may have as little as two hours of traffic control by a municipal cop. A state cop may devote an entire day…An accident can use up an entire shift with overtime when you take into account follow up and paper work. So if you want to discuss how best value for the dollar is obtained, it is NOT by writing out revenue generating traffic summons, but is usually in keeping a situation where there are as few accidents as possible, and where traffic control Is effective but brief. The police can then spend more time working directly in crime prevention roles NOT related to traffic control.
Drifter… In the best case, common sense would be used. Going just a few miles over the speed limit may be excusable by the police in very light traffic with NO priors and a historically good driving record. But, if you pick up a multiple or habitual offender or it’s part of a multiple offense like OUI, it’s logical to write every offense up.
There is a little town near my brother’s residence but in the next county where a police officer is posted to see if anyone rolls through the town’s one stop sign. The officer watches for cars that have license plates from a different county and issues tickets whether the motorist stops or not.
At any rate, my brother was coming through the town in his old GMC truck. The engine was badly worn and the engine smoked profusely. My brother knew that he had made a full stop because the truck had a 3 speed transmission and wasn’t synchronized in low gear, so in order to keep from clashing the gears, the truck had to be fully stopped to shift into low. The officer came after him. My brother purposely left the truck running while the officer went to the rear of the truck to check the license plate. When the officer told my brother he had disregarded the stop sign, my brother replied that he was broke and out of work and would have to work off the time in jail. The officer then remarked about how badly the truck was smoking. My brother again explained that he was out of work and didn’t have the money to fix the truck, let alone pay for a ticket. “I’ll just have to work off the time in jail”. The officer finally let him off with a warning.
I asked my brother what he would do if the same officer pulled him over in his Lincoln Mark IV that he owned at the time. He said he would tell the officer “I may be broke and out of work, but I still have good credit”.
“Our law professor used to tell us that a law is no longer a law when the majority of the people ignore it.”
“The officer watches for cars that have license plates from a different county and issues tickets whether the motorist stops or not.”
So the COUNTY issues license plates in your state?
You can run a plate to determine ownership address…but that would be one fast computer.
I once “took it to court” (actually “pled guilty, but with explanation”) and was called in to meet with a judge and the trooper. I explained, and the trooper asked, “Why didn’t you tell me this when I stopped you?” I replied, “Because I was advised never to offer explanations when stopped because it usually annoys the officer.”
The ticket was voided on the spot, which left me confused as to which is the proper advice.
The explanation was that while driving at around the speed limit, I didn’t like the driving behavior of a car near me, and chose to speed up to pull ahead of him on the highway, rather than slow down to drop back behind him. (True, BTW. Was going 80; 10 over the limit.)
“So the COUNTY issues license plates in your state?”
They do in Tennessee. Its a state plate with a county decal at the bottom. There are also spots for the month decal, year decal and the road tax decal (if applicable to that county).
Yep South Dakota does too. They actually print the county on the plate last I was there. In Minnesota certain prefixs go to certain parts of the state. California has a god awful numbering system as far as I can tell so who knows there.
@dagosa Thanks for the info. I looked up the exact breakdown of how the traffic fine revenues are distributed in my state, CA (seems it depends on the county though). Looks like a lot goes to the courts (ostensibly?) for handling the cases, some goes to the county general fund, some goes to traffic school, some goes to the DMV to offset the cost of the extra record-keeping. A teeny bit goes to emergency funds like: “emergency air medical transportation” (always wondered how they pay for that). So that’s right, doesn’t go to the cops.
I still think its really cool that one can basically choose not to pay it. If someone else’s voluntary expenditure – whether it be a speeding ticket or box of thin mints – somehow mitigates a cost for which I’d be gouged anyway, that’s all good. To me it is the same if it affects the same pie, assuming brownies worked for the government.
While I doubt it’s anywhere near perfect, there’d be so many more accidents without any – even vague – threat of financial repercussion. I suspect I’d be paying more in insurance at least. I don’t know if this sort of thing is common, but every now and then here in the SF bay area, you hear about some crash ruining a critical overpass and necessitating emergency around-the-clock construction, a wreck blocking a tunnel, starting a fire, etc. I wonder if these would increase (and therefore everyone’s taxes?) if we had increased wrecks from total lack of policing. Just a guess. Just thinking out loud. Who has the answer? I don’t.
“The best indicator as to how well a force is doing should better be seen by how few summons are written.”
I would say the best indicator is how many accidents and how serious they are is the best indicator, After all why do we have speed limits and not just speed suggestions,
So the COUNTY issues license plates in your state?
Several states have indicators of what state the vehicle is licensed in. He never said the county issues license plates.
Mousse…thanks for checking the breakdown of the revenue distribution in CA state. It seems to be same as ours. In town meetings where our budget was distributed, I don’t recall any mention of receipts for summons going into the general fund. Our police budget did report the summons amount being directly payable to the county court we were part of. When doing court duty as a PO to adjudicate the fines, you realize that court costs are high enough to swallow up any fines they collect. Maybe in larger communities or county police enforcement agencies like the Sherrifs department in our state, there could be a budgetary connection ? Just a guess…
I still see movies all the time depicting the town Sherriff, county judge, town mayor etc. all being in concert with law enforcement in small backwards towns in states that take advantage of the poor traveler. It’s like, all of a sudden state govt. and federal govt. agencies were suddenly suspended for the purpose of making a movie.
When ever we watched these fake movie scenerios at home, I was compelled to lecture my kids when they were growing up…“kids, this IS make believe…If you feel you are mistreated by some local cop, there is a state police barracks just down the road, the county court, and if all else fails and Gomer Pyle has infiltrated the entire state, the federal building is just 4 miles away. If that fails, wait till Sunday morning services. Our US senator goes to the same mass we do and usually sits in the same isle seat.”
Old movies like “Tank” come to mind, as well as half the " Deliverance", “The Departed”, and “Rambo” type movies out there. Corrupt town cops who magically can get away with anything are the backbone of many action, comedy and horror movies. There seems to be as many cop criminals in movies as real ones. No wonder " everyone has a story".
Mississippi sheriffs were, until recently, paid on a fee basis and were tax collectors as well as law enforcement officials, Sheriffs were the highest paid elected officials in the state plus they usually made a considerable income from the bootlegging of alcohol since the state was dry until 1966, and many counties remain dry today. The state legislature banned county sheriffs from using radar because of the speed traps that became common. The south, and Mississippi especially, is slow to move ahead in most matters and the situation makes for some entertaining movie scripts. I am anxiously awaiting a movie regarding the death of a local sheriff. He was a cousin of Elvis Presley and died in a shoot out with a man who supposedly had thrown a nude, hog-tied female from his truck while a deputy chased him. The deputy’s car ran over her and she died. Rumor has it that the dead female was a “close acquaintance” of the sheriff’s. The Presley estate may be keeping a lid on the story.