tut tut, have you never heard of JIT management? He probably got promoted. (end sarcasm)
yup. A management agenda to make inventory close to zero.
Funny OK mentioned SAAB… I cut my teeth on the 900’s shim over bucket… I used to have nightmares about it. I couldnt find the shims I needed for 6 valves that needed adjustment… What did I do ? Used my Dremel and cut wheels to grind down junkyard shims…until they Mic’d out at the value I needed. Worked like a charm but I wouldn’t reccommend to anyone.
I drove that thing for 45K and the valves remained perfect.
Honda Blackbird
JIT, just in time. Means its there just as you need it, not two hours later so you have to twittle your thumbs waiting. Sounds like some dealerships are JALL, just a little later.
I brought my used 2005 Accord with 113k miles in to a dealer for an air bag recall. They offered me a free 51 pt. inspection. They found that I needed some servicing, which included a valve adjustment for $176 CA.
The service department rep tried to “scare” me into it. Said, If the valves are too tight I could blow up my engine.
I’ve never had a problem and don’t want to adjust my valves.
“The service department rep tried to “scare” me into it. Said, If the valves are too tight I could blow up my engine.”
He was telling you a grain of truth.
Tight valves become burned valves.
By the time you notice a problem it’s too late.
I’ve owned 4 Hondas ('75, '81, '85, '88) and did valve adjustments myself.
“He was telling you a grain of truth.
Tight valves become burned valves.
By the time you notice a problem it’s too late.
I’ve owned 4 Hondas ('75, '81, '85, '88) and did valve adjustments myself.”
It does make sense. I just feel conflicted. Some say it’s not really needed and some do.
I’ve seen some videos of people doing the adjustments. It doesn’t seem too difficult. Still make me nervous though…
I’ll add a data point. I’ve checked the valve clearances like the manual says for years, starting in the early 80’s on my VW Rabbit, continuing now to my Corolla, and never once has any valve measured out of spec. My Corolla has 16 valves, and every one of them has always measured in spec. So one idea, instead of adjusting the valves, just measure the valve clearances. There’s a good chance no adjustment will be required. Measuring the clearances on my cars anyway is a simple job, besides feeler gauges nothing special in the way of tools required, takes maybe 90 minutes. If you want you can install a new valve cover gasket, but I only do that if the old one is looking ragged.
All my Hondas needed adjustment at some point; not at every inspection.
Adjustment was easy, needing only a 10mm wrench (12?) and screwdriver.
I recently checked clearances on my '06 Matrix at 57k miles; and all were in spec except one intake valve is at the loose limit.
Since adjustment in this engine requires cam removal and changing shims I’ll leave it alone for another ~60k, unless I hear ticking.
They found that I needed some servicing, which included a valve adjustment for $176 CA.
I think that’s a good price and good advice. Two of my Civics have had a few “tight” valves at 100K. Be sure to ask them to write down the “as-found” clearances for you. Even if they’re all OK, you can sleep well and at any rate you’ll probably never have to do it again.
@db4590, in response to your question about whether the parts manager was EVER fired; the answer is no.
Maybe he was related to the dealer but I have no direct knowledge of that. Maybe he had something on the dealer and was blackmailing him; who knows.
The entire operation was bad; it’s just that the parts department was the worst of the lot.
This is also the dealership that suffered a break-in one weekend. Someone got into the key closet and took a new GMC pickup. They raised the rear overhead, backed the truck up, and heisted every top box in the shop by rolling the cabinets over to the truck and dragging the tops off into the bed of the truck.
Luckily this happened just before I went to work there as the dealer refused to let his insurance company get involved and every mechanic there got stuck with some very expensive tool losses.
All of this goes on with meetings every few months preaching morale and positive attitude…
The mechanics had every right to file their own claim since it’s their loss.
What are the real advantages/disadvantages to the various styles of valve adjustment. Hydraulic lifters seem like the best option if you ask me. I guess these can cause issues when the oil change is neglected or the engine is run hard and the valves are floated. Are there any other downsides to hydraulic lifters? I understand racers like solid lifters because they remain in adjustment at high RPM where the valves may start to float.
Many imports use solid lifters while domestics seem to stay with hydraulic units.
A cam operating directly with no rocker arm makes valvetrain mass about as low as possible.
Honda et al have used solid lifters in small high-revving engines for a long time.
They’re banking on that experience.
The 3 cylinder Geo Metro is OHC and has hydraulic lash adjusters between the cam and the valves. There are no rocker arms. I know there were issues with people burning valves when these things plug up from people neglecting their oil changes. They are also a pretty high revving little engine and know that sometimes they have a tendency to burn valves at higher RPMs so this may be related.
Then I went to the 3 cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage. This is also OHC and uses the bucket/shim type. This is also a high revving little engine and maybe the lack of extra mass in the valvetrain is one way to improve the performance and economy of this small engine.
What are the real advantages/disadvantages to the various styles of valve adjustment.
I can’t speak to the engine performance differences, but in terms of diy’er friendliness I’d rate valve adjustment technology, from best to worse, as
- hydraulic lifters
- those that can be adjusted with simple hand tools like a screwdriver and wrench, no shims
- those that require special tools for shim replacement, but no need to remove the camshaft
- anything that requires the camshaft be removed
Don’t forget that on some cars with the bucket and shim method, the shims can be removed without removing the cams
On my previous Toyota, for example, the factory service manual told me to remove the cams. But I was able to use a special tool to get it done without removing the cam.
I guess if you could somehow compress the valve spring with a tool, you could do this without removing the cam. I didn’t think of that but this seems to be the only way I can see to do this.
On both of my OH cam cars I’ve owned – a VW Rabbit and a Corolla – the shims can be replaced without messing w/the cams. Special tools are required to do it properly. And of course you have to be able to source the correct shims, which isn’t always as easy as it seems like it should be.