This was my alignment specs before and after at the dealer. The alignment before was only slightly off. Is it possible alignment can only be slightly knocked out but lots of suspension components damaged?
So, dude was not lying. Dude was honest.
Good side is like 5.5 inch between hub cap and car
Bad side is 5 inch
you can visually see the difference too there is obviously less space, the wheel is pushed back.
It’s amazing this is the first mechanic i saw who did this basic diagnostic.
I’ve explained this before. Yes, it is possible (within reason) to adjust the toe to compensate for damage.
It doesn’t fix anything; it just masks it and makes the alignment rack happy…
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sorry, yes it was just so slightly out of alignment that i find it amazing i still bent stuff.
In either event, I verified it for myself and he wasnt lying the bad wheel is pushed back 1/2 inch . I measured the sides wheel to wheel and also the distance between bottom of car and start of hub cap, definitely over 1/2 inch pushed back.That sounds pretty significant bend 
So at least i know they weren’t lying to me and are honest, and seem like reasonably skilled mechanics… i can trust them to do a proper inspection.
You could actually talk to your insurance agent because I doubt your premium would increase any where that much. Or you can just keep tilting at windmills.
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I hate to bust your bubble, but that is not a valid measurement. The correct measurement to see if the control arm is bent is from the center of the lower ball joint to a fixed location on the frame. The service manual identifies the location on the frame and the correct measurement and tolerance.
The reason that your measurement is invalid is that you are some distance away from the pivot point for turning your tires. Actually it is a pivot line.
In the old days, the tires pivoted around the kingpin, but kingpins have long since been replaced by ball joints. Your car has a strut suspension so the pivot line is from the center of the ball joint to the center of the upper strut mount bearing.
To give you a visual, if you have a T-square or you can at least imagine one, hold the T-square vertically, just like you would be looking at the letter T. The top of the T-square is the tire, you are holding the T-square at the bottom. The bottom represents the lower ball joint. Now pivot the T-square right and left around your hand (aka ball joint). You can see that the tire moves fore and aft as you move the T-square. The T-square represents the steering knuckle which has the tire on the outside and the ball joint on the inside.
You will find that slight rotations of the steering wheel will measurably move the tires front to back.
The OP stated that he measured the distance between the left side F and R tires and also the distance between the right side F and R tires.
I’m assuming (correctly or not) that the tape measure in the pics is something done by the OP to show that the wheel is pushed back.
Per the first sentence, 10 MM is way too much.
Thats just not a valid way to determine if the tire is actually pushed back.
I agree that is not the certifiable way to check for tire push back IF those pics are of the OP doing it with a tape measure.
However, the OP stated the tech measured wheels F to R on both sides to determine the 10 MM push back. That is a valid check.
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I don’t agree, especially if the tech was using the wheel well as a reference. I’d want it done by the book.
I realize this probably isnt official and FWIW he hasnt determined what is bent, he only said its definitely control arm/steering knuckle related if my wheel is pushed back.
However, my wheel tilts left very slightly, the car veers to the R (short) side if my wheel is straight and this mechanic quickly measured wheel distance on both sides and stated the R side is 10mm shorter.
To make sure he wasnt lying, i went home with car parked and wheels straight and did my own informal measurement and he’s right its >0.5 inch pushed in relative to the unaffected side.
This was just very preliminary for him to determine if something is amiss. Nothing was really checked yet, but i would say given all of my signs this probably indicates something is bent.
They are going to put it on a lift and actually check to see what is bent under there. They arent saying “because of this its bent”, all they meant to say was “when wheel is pushed back, control arm /steering knuckle is affected”.
All I can say is until now i couldnt even get a mechanic to identify anything is wrong, these guys seem at least minimally capable of diagnosing a suspension.
I also measured tire-to-tire distance and the good sidewas 103 the bad side 102.5 so even that was consistent.
I simply used the car body as frame of reference bcuz its easier to do/see.
I’ve done research, sometimes premium not increase if its not an at fault event. Hitting curb is at fault so i would be penalized. If car damage by hale, then they may repair w/o premium raise. But if you bump tire on curb, thats user error related so you are a greater risk to them, therefore premium raise.
Premiums go up several years, a % of what you pay. The insurance agent is not at liberty to tell me how much they would go up. Years ago I got into an accident driving on ice + sun glare. Even though that was literally related to the road condition, i was deemed at fault. In addition to the 500 deductible, my premiums went up at least that much biannually for 2-3 years.
Of course i needed 5k in repairs because of damage to my car body (car still able 2 drive just big damage to front, and side door; possibly mechanic damage too but not to point car unable to drive or start). So in that case the claim clearly made sense.
So given i know hittin ga wall bcuz weather condition = deem at fault, i am without doubt sure this will also fall under at fault. Until i know for sure i need >3k repairs i would not even think about a claim.
EDIT: because road condition accidents are still related to you as a driver, your premium increase. If i am the kind of drive that has to drive in bad weather (i am a nurse), i am not entitled to a free repair every time my car gets messed up driving to and from work in really bad weather. I see their logic, it’s all about risk.
Most LIKELY case scenario the damage is local wheel , control arm and such. I really was not going fast, 10mph is the max but more likely less than that. So the only way my repair would be over 2k is if i manage to bend inner tie rod/steering rack which as stated is unlikely given it truly was a minor curb hit. I’m not downplaying my responsibility being stupid to hit the curb, just that the kinda impact it would be very bad luck if something that high up was damaged.
Besides my steering issues only manifest at high speeds, and it feels more reactive to poor control over the wheels, speaking as the car owner. If i go at slow speeds (<50mph) 0% problem turning. Only when higher speeds, where it feels like the car is jittering side to side bcuz of defect wheel control. Then turn slightly, ESPECIALLY going downward angle? The steering then jerks or shimmy. Wheel also jerks sometimes on stops or bumps, which i’ve red is consistent control arm.
If it was steering rack i would probably expect to see steering issues at all speeds, regardless of road surface , or direction of car (worst if going downward; going upward is not problem)
For what it’s worth, I’ve done a lot of repairs related to curb strikes and so on and the control arm being bent is almost a given. Only once or twice have I ever seen a bent or damaged steering knuckle and in those cases the hit was pretty severe.
Measuring from the tire to the edge of the fender is not a certifiable method of determining whether or not something is bent.
However, being a new car and being off as much as is shown in the pics, that in itself should mean something is bent.
The alternative would mean that one would have to believe the body construction is off by a mile from the factory and that would not be the case. Toyota is not that shoddy.
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Yea doing research i have learned the steering knuckle is a pretty heavy duty piece, this was a mild curb hit, wheel doesnt even seem to be bent (zero change after rotating tires twice - no change in sound, vibration, driving at all regardless if front is on back, or on front; if it is bent it is so mild i cannot tell driving on it).
I also checked wheel to wheel myself and the gap was the same, i simply used car body bcuz as you say this is a new car and its easier to photograph.
Since you are experienced, how common is damaging the steering rack or inner tie rod on a 5-10 mph hit that has bent the control arm as well? I have no frame of reference here. I only know inner tie rods are also common as control arms are and in my car that requires whole rack replacement.
Also, a question i have regarding diagnosing a rack & pinion issue, if steering abnormalities only occur at speed, is that suggestive of anything? I would assume if my steering rack is damaged i would have jerking or steering issues at all speeds even city traffic? Or is this an incorrect assumption? My “steering” problems only manifest typically at higher speeds (where there is also jittering of the car side to side from what feels like a wheel issue), and when making turns particularly traveling downward/on angle.
I cant get my car in for formal inspection until next weds so i am trying to prepare myself what to expect as a diagnosis
I would doubt that the pack is damaged, but it is possible that it could have loosened the mounting bolts and that would cause your symptoms. That would be worth a look.
There is a little procedure I use with difficult to diagnose steering issues. With the car on the ground, rear wheels chocked and parking brake set, I have a trusted friend start the engine. I lay on the ground in front of the car (reason for trusted person) so that I can see the rack, tie rods and lower ball joints. Have the trusted person move the steering wheel back and forth about 20 to 30 degrees each way and a fairly rapid rate, about a second per movement. Look at the affected parts. See if the rack has any vertical movement and if there is any slippage in the ball joints. Both tie rods should be in perfect sync.
You don’t have to be very knowledgeable about front ends for this, you can sense when something just doesn’t look right. If something doesn’t look right, then point that out to your mechanic.
Edit: This is interesting, the inner tie rod is replaceable, the design has not changed. The only thing that has changed is Toyota’s policy of not selling the inner tie rod by itself, you have to buy the complete rack. I think this violates an old law that auto manufacturers have to make all parts available to the public for at least 10 years after the date of manufacture.
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I also doubt the steering rack is damaged but it certainly should be gone over with a fine tooth comb; just in case.
Some hits can damage hubs, wheel bearings, halfshafts, and even the transmission in certain cases. I’m NOT saying these items are damaged; only that it’s always at least a faint possibility on a 10 MPH hit.
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@keith unfortunately i dont have a trusted person, and am even more inept to properly identify these parts to examine, haha. But the shop promised me they will inspect everything carefully so i hope they know what they are doing.
The shop said they only use OEM parts , and no refurbished parts, because of law suit risk especially suspension so even if it were possible to just replace tie rods i know they wouldnt do it. Yea, big scam toyota is running , and doesnt sound legal.
@ok4450 - thanks, here is to hoping its just a control arm. Although the mechanic told me he did the same thing on his car and needed steering rack. The steering issue seems secondary to poor control of wheels and the jittering on the highway (front of car kinda sways slightly although doesnt overtly wander). At slower speed in the city, the car pulls right if steering wheel straight, but otherwise drives normally.
Most streets are slanted to the right for drainage. See if you can find a large flat parking lot to verify this.
@BillRussell If the wheel is turned on a slight angle, the car will not pull. It will drive straight. This is true even at highway speeds, if the highway is totally smooth/perfect. You can take your hands off wheel and it will go straight.
If the wheel is properly straight, it pulls right however. Tested many times.
I didnt notice the wheel was crooked until 2 mechanics told me. None of them thought to measure the wheel distance and they thought the car was fine lol.
However at highway speeds i can feel the car kinda “jitter” side to side on bad roads. On smooth highway it is ok, but the more imperfections in the road the more the car will kinda wander slightly, both left and right as if it can’t really track normally unless the road is totally perfect. Very annoying and slightly scary.
Tomorrow I’ll drop my car offfor a diagnosis. I’ve had such absurdly bad experiences with mechanics i’m afraid, but hoping they are competent enough to properly diagnose what is bent.