As long as the thread is still talking about how this relates to driving and car culture, I’m OK with that. When it gets out of that realm, I’ll have to close it. Thank you for your consideration.
Edit: @kmccune, I know you still want a General Discussion area, and it would be full of interesting things. However, as we have discussed before, Car Talk is not going to offer it. Let’s try to have as much fun as we can within the parameters.
Let me ask a question,what part of this forum is actually bona fida-Tom and Ray cartalk?(think this has been explained before,but I forget the answear)
As I understand it, they got their funniest and most off topic lines from some of the conversations here. 
I have to admit that Rick's philosophies in this area drive me nuts, but I support his right to express them....... although I realize one would not think so from my initial response. I just get tired of hearing the constant "save the earthI also offer Rick my sincere apology for having reacted the way I did. I still disagree with his philosophies in this area, but I should not have reacted until I’d cooled down and thought through a response. I appreciate Rick’s tolerance until I did have a chance to cool down. no matter the suffering it causes the people" choruses, generally sung by people who would not suffer from the consequences of what they propose.
Thanks so much TSMB, I apologize if I got under your skin. I do agree with what you are saying about denying ourselves to save the world. After all I am sitting in my air conditioned house, using a laptop, and I am going to go outside in a bit and use my gas powered tiller in my garden. I certainly am “guilty” of using natural resources for luxury.
If I was that concerned about saving fuel I should be driving a 1999 Geo Metro with a 3 cyl and no a/c. It would get better highway mpg than my Prius V, but I like a 3400lbs car with a/c, power lumbar seat, and gadgets galore.
Very good discussion here, thats for sure.
@ thesamemountainbike
I would buy you a coke, or tea or whatever and a meal any day. Its always a pleasure talking to you on here.
Thanks Rick, The same back at you. In my case the “whatever” would be a fruit juice. I’m a nonalcoholic entity.
Das Ende. Guten Tag. Uffda.
@WheresRick Would it be fair to say that your insistence to bring up this idea that everyone else is wrong (since you have CDL and the apparently incredible ability to drive a medium-duty truck at or below the speed limit ) is your “alcoholic attitude”?
@FoDaddy
So which way do we go ? Teasing a chap because his fetish is he insists on driving his truck at less then the speed limit or one whose fetish is he insist he is perfectly safe driving his (Expedition) at over 100 mph. ? (Robt.) Everyone has preconceived notions on what is the best way to drive even if they are “alcoholic attitude” induced. Some cause problems for the rest of us, some don’t.
@dagosa We can always do both
Some cause problems for the rest of us, some don't.
When you’re dead - you don’t know it, - it just effects the people around you.
Same thing if you’re stupid.
@MikeInNH, I guess you don’t believe in an afterlife, or self-awareness for the mentally challenged. I’ve been dead, but that’s a controversial issue, so instead on commenting on that, I will submit that many people do know they’re mentally challenged, especially those with “special” needs.
@FoDaddy: “Would it be fair to say that your insistence to bring up this idea that everyone else is wrong (since you have CDL and the apparently incredible ability to drive a medium-duty truck at or below the speed limit ) is your ‘alcoholic attitude’?”
His ability to drive his truck at or below the speed limit might not be a matter of choice. When I drove a company truck, my truck was governed at 64 MPH.
If high speed isn’t dangerous, but speed differential is really what causes the danger, we have an unresolved conflict, because many commercial truck drivers can’t drive fast enough to narrow down that speed differential. Nor should they, even if they could, drive a loaded 80,000 lb. semi faster than the posted speed limit. In that case, any argument for driving over the posted speed limit on roads shared by passenger cars and governed loaded commercial trucks becomes moot.
Sorry, I have to say that, as a former class A commercial truck driver, the single biggest threat to my safety was car drivers, and facing them every day I went to work made me resent that they made my workplace more dangerous than it had to be. Even if my truck hadn’t been governed at 64 MPH, driving as fast as the cars around me would NOT have made the roads any safer. Passenger car drivers, as a group, just don’t appreciate that the highways are a dangerous place the way professional drivers tend to. We who don’t drive professionally take for granted that many of us create unnecessary risk and stress for people who make their livings driving on the highways every day.
The sad thing is that driving faster than the speed limit is something we do for selfish reasons. We manage to justify it by claiming it’s safer, but it really isn’t, especially when you consider who and what types of vehicles you’re sharing the roads with. There is no altruism or safety advantage to speeding. I’m not perfect. I do it for selfish reasons too, like because I’m running late. However, like I said earlier, if I get pulled over or cause an accident, I’m not going to blame someone else for the fact that I chose to speed. Nobody made that decision for me.
I will submit that many people do know they're mentally challenged, especially those with "special" needs.
Of course I agree with that…but there are so many generally stupid people who just don’t have a clue they’re stupid…and in many cases think they are smart. And their stupidity only effects the people around them who have to deal with them.
@Whitey I fully agree that one should drive in a manner that compliments the type of vehicle you’re driving. It wouldn’t be advisable to hustle a Freightliner around the streets of Monaco and it wouldn’t be a good idea to take a Ferrari to Moab. Likewise one must drive properly for the conditions. But it’s not a one size fits all proposition that some people seem to think it is. Someone like Nigel Mansell behind the wheel of a 2014 BMW M5 could likely drive faster than the posted speed limit more safely than a drooling idiot schlepping along in his 1984 Dodge Omni with 400k miles on the clock and tires that date back to the first Bush administration. Speed limits are set with the latter in mind.
With all that said, I also agree that it’s the speed differential that gets you. And it’s a point I’ve been arguing for years on this forum. I believe that it’s inherently safer to drive that the prevailing speed of traffic, whenever possible, even it that speed is above the speed limit. If the posted speed limit is 65 MPH and 95% of traffic is moving at 80 MPH, then you’re better off driving at 80 MPH , likewise if the speed limit is 65 MPH, but conditions are poor and everyone is driving at 45 MPH, then it would be safer to drive at 45 MPH. But there are people out there who will insist on driving the speed limit no matter what, but these people are the ones who are creating the speed differential between themselves and the majority of other motorists and that’s when you’re likely to see more problems.
If you choose to look, you can find numerous sites that have the same basic information:
http://www.motorists.org/speed-limits/faq
Q. How should speed limits be set?
A. Traffic engineers maintain that speed limits should be established according to the 85th percentile of free flowing traffic. This means the limit should be set at a level at or under which 85 percent of people are driving. Numerous studies have shown that the 85th percentile is the safest possible level at which to set a speed limit.
Q. What are “realistic” speed laws?
A. According to a pamphlet produced by the Washington State Department of Transportation relating to speed limits, “realistic” speed limits should invite public compliance by conforming to the behavior of the most drivers. This would allow the police to easily separate the serious violators from the reasonable majority.
Q. Isn’t slower always safer?
A. No, federal and state studies have consistently shown that the drivers most likely to get into accidents in traffic are those traveling significantly below the average speed. According to research, those driving 10 mph slower than the prevailing speed are more likely to be involved in an accident. That means that if the average speed on an interstate is 70 mph, the person traveling at 60 mph is more likely to be involved in an accident than someone going 70 or even 80 mph.
@TwinTurbo - thanks for posting this, it turns out folks (at least 85% of them) are the best ‘expert’ when it comes to determining the appropriate speed limit. Except if it’s the government trying to maximize speeding ticket income…
@FoDaddy, the problem is that people like like Nigel Mansell aren’t alone on the roads. Nigel Mansell doesn’t just share the road with a drooling idiot schlepping along in his 1984 Dodge Omni. He also shares the roads with the 72 year old senior citizen who might take a moment or two longer to react to changing traffic conditions, and with the truck driver hauling giant rolls of paper, and the middle aged guy who is recovering from a neck injury. Nigel Mansell doesn’t live or drive in isolation. He may be the most skilled driver in the world, but he also shares the road with people who have different driving styles. His desire to weave in and out of traffic going faster than everyone else on the road creates an unnecessary hazard, because when he pulls in front of a loaded semi and has to slam on his brakes because an older driver visiting from Florida accidentally pulls in out in front of him, it ain’t going to be pretty. It’s a given that the senior citizen from Florida is probably most liable for the accident, but Nigel’s excessive speed would be a contributing factor that made the collision happen.
Living in Florida, I’m keenly aware of how combining different types of driving styles makes things get harry. Most of the people who live here are transplants from somewhere else. The guy in the luxury sedan or sports car who can drive 110 MPH down the highway weaving in and out of traffic might be a really skilled driver, but the moment some blue haired old lady tries to change lanes in front of him, the vehicles will collide, and that doesn’t have to happen.
@"Whitey , that’s one of the reasons why I support stricter driving standards in this country. Driving is privilege, not a right. If we had more serious driver training/standards, you’d have a better quality of driver on the road. In the U.S. the only qualifications you need are one good eye and a heartbeat. Lane discipline is particularly egregious, and I can’t count the number of times that I’ve seen someone hit the brakes well before they use their turn signal.
Also I wasn’t suggesting that Nigel Mansell would be weaving in and out of traffic. I was giving an example that a highly skilled driver in a capable car was more likely to be able to transverse a given road better at higher speed than an unskilled driver in a dilapidated vehicle, and how speed limits have to accommodate unskilled drivers with questionable vehicles. There are several reasons why speed limits in this country have remained basically the same for the past 50 years whilst cars have gotten better with much improved handling, brakes, tires, and safety.
Would it be fair to say that your insistence to bring up this idea that everyone else is wrong (since you have CDL and the apparently incredible ability to drive a medium-duty truck at or below the speed limit ) is your "alcoholic attitude"?
I suppose you could, the thing is though, CDL drivers are held to a higher standard than other drivers. I see no difference on my insurance rates, and things that I do in my personal vehicle effect my CDL. I am held to stricter standards even when driving my car. As the holder of a commercial drivers license (CDL), you’re held to a higher standard when behind the wheel – kind of a the -bigger-the-vehicle-the-bigger-the-responsibilies type mindset.
Having a CDL is a serious responsibility, with safety being at the forefront. That’s why the punishment for a safety violation is so severe.
You should note that anyone with a CDL is considered to be legally drunk with a blood alcohol content of 0.04%, half of the limit for non-CDL holders.
The first time you’re found guilty of drunk driving, you’ll lose your license for 1 year (or 3 years if you’re driving a hazardous materials vehicle). If it happens again, you’ll lose it for life.
You’ll also lose your CDL for at least 60 days if you’re found guilty (while driving a commercial motor vehicle) of 2 offenses that include excessive speeding, reckless driving and any traffic offense in connection with a fatal accident, within a period of 3 years.
You’ll lose it for at least 120 days if 3 offenses occur within a period of 3 years.
In addition, you’ll have your license suspended for 1 year if you leave the scene of an accident that involved your CMV, or if you use your CMV in the act of a felony. The penalty is 3 years if you’re driving a hazardous materials vehicle.
Also, by having a CDL, you give your implied consent for alcohol testing for any of the above infractions.
-With a CDL license you are not eligible for traffic school or a deferment, you get a ticket and its not going away.
See why I don’t speed??
The sad thing is that driving faster than the speed limit is something we do for selfish reasons. We manage to justify it by claiming it's safer, but it really isn't, especially when you consider who and what types of vehicles you're sharing the roads with. There is no altruism or safety advantage to speeding. I'm not perfect. I do it for selfish reasons too, like because I'm running late. However, like I said earlier, if I get pulled over or cause an accident, I'm not going to blame someone else for the fact that I chose to speed. Nobody made that decision for me.
@Whitey
You hit the nail on the head. Thankyou.
You one of the few honest people, you are completely honest why you speed, make no excuses, and if you get caught accept responsibility.
Thankyou. I admit I speed at times as well, for many of the same reasons as you. I rarely speed anymore and never to the point I reach reckless driving territory., if I do and I get a ticket I will not cry the blues, I will take my fine and punishment like a man.
If you run for president im voting for you!