This thread will likely go on forever, but no, higher gas prices will not result in better drivers.
@meanjoe75fan, since the Hurt Report was a study of motorcycle accident data, and doesn’t apply to this discussion, I think you should look in the mirror when you “call bovine scatology.” Seriously, if you think the Hurt Report is relevant to a discussion about cars in a car forum, you might want to try reading it first.
However, I’m happy to humor you and pretend the Hurt Report is relevant to this discussion, because if you were to read the Hurt Report, you’d already know “Injury severity increases with speed…”* You’d also know “Groin injuries were sustained by the motorcyclist in at least 13% of the accidents, which typified by multiple vehicle collision in frontal impact at higher than average speed.”*
…but nice try. Next time you try to twist an official report to fit your opinion, I suggest you do the following:
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Pick a report that actually says what you think it does.
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Pick a report that is relevant to the issue.
Here is another interesting tidbit form the Hurt Report:
“In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slideout and fall due to overbraking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.”
@MikeInNH, how many times are you going to make the same point? I guess I deserve it since I did the same thing a couple times, but here is a question I’d like to ask: It seems like there are many of you guys from the New England area who condone or rationalize driving aggressively due to the way other people drive. How many of you are going to blame other people for how you drive before you realize you’re part of the problem?
It seems like there are many of you guys from the New England area who condone or rationalize driving aggressively due to the way other people drive.
@Whitey I don’t believe anyone is condoning or rationalizing aggressive driving, Mike and others are simply responding to these posts that make suggestions based on some ideal world, and providing reasoning that shows why such suggestions are clearly not practical or possible.
Correct, we cannot blame others for the things that we decide to do. But we can certainly blame others for limiting what our options are.
: It seems like there are many of you guys from the New England area who condone or rationalize driving aggressively due to the way other people drive.
I NEVER EVER condone or rationalize driving aggressively. Show me where I said that.
All I’ve EVER EVER said - is you drive at the speed everyone else is driving. How is that driving aggressively? If you’re driving 10-20 mph BELOW the rest of traffic…which every study I’ve read is far more DANGEROUS then driving at the prevailing speed.
http://www.autotrader.com/research/article/car-safety/26385/unsafe-driving.jsp
Drive in New England for a couple of weeks the way you say EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD DRIVE…then let me know what hospital you’re in and I’ll send flowers.
@starman1, is tailgating a type of aggressive driving? I would say it is. Did you not say that if you leave the proper amount of space between the vehicle ahead of you and your vehicle, someone else will pull into that space?
I’ve made this point a couple of times already, but you New England drivers seem to keep missing it. You acknowledge that you tailgate, and then you say you’re not driving aggressively. Sorry, but those two statements are mutually exclusive.
FWIW, he’s describing what happens when you try to leave, what experts recommend as, sufficient space. During commute times, that will be impossible because as mentioned, cars will be diving into that space non-stop. You can be as passive as humanly possible and keep backing off in perpetuity but in the end, you will actually be putting yourself at more risk for an incident due to being cut off constantly. It is actually the lesser of all evils to maintain the regionally acceptable gap that discourages that kind of behavior. You may not believe it will continue like that for your entire commute but until you routinely drive around this area, you will never realize he speaks the truth. I could turn it around and say that if you continue to do as you suggest, you would be contributing to the behavior as an enabler 
On the flip side, it took me awhile to rationalize how people could drive so aggressively in this area and yet, you have to be prepared to stop on a moments notice for someone who brakes unexpectedly to let someone out from a side street or parking lot. Seriously, you could be tooling along at 40 mph with no one behind you and the guy in front of you brakes hard to stop and let some car out onto the highway. It’s ironic…
@Whitey
I disagree with your definition of tailgating. As previously discussed, the “appropriate distance” to leave is 380 feet (4 seconds of 65mph travel). I do not consider leaving 370 feet of space to be tailgating and certainly not aggressive.
Also, as I said before, it is not rationalizing aggressive driving, it is simply pointing out the real world problems of driving more than 380 feet behind the car in front of you.
Did you not say that if you leave the proper amount of space between the vehicle ahead of you and your vehicle, someone else will pull into that space?
That’s like saying it’s the guys fault for getting shot because he got in the way of the bullet.
Your argument if very poor.
Do I WANT to have cars rush in front of me when I give enough room? NO. But what choice do I have? I’ve asked you that several times. How will you handle the driving in New England when 2-3 cars fill up the space in front of you when you’re driving the speed limit? I’ve been waiting for this answer for a few days now. So far you’re only response…is “It doesn’t happen”…which is total bull!
@MikeInNH, I did answer that. You drive safely and arrive at your destination a couple minutes later than you would have otherwise while pacing the car in front of you. If you go back to my posts, I’ve not made a case for driving the speed limit, but I have made a case for the fact that speed differential is dangerous, and many vehicles are governed or can’t drive fast.
What I am saying is nothing like “it’s the guys fault for getting shot because he got in the way of the bullet.”
What I am saying is stop blaming everyone else for the fact that you’re pointing a loaded weapon at someone else. In this analogy, you’re holding the gun because you’re driving your car. Regardless of why you’re tailgating, you’re tailgating, and you’re doing it deliberately because you’re in some macho mindset where you’re afraid to be less aggressive than the other drivers. This means you’re contributing to the problem. You’re allowing yourself to be one of the aggressive drivers you condemn.
@TwinTurbo, your “lesser of two evils” argument is the first one that recognizes that there is a balance between the two positions in this dispute, and I congratulate you for acknowledging that what’s going on here is tailgating and that it creates a hazard. You make good sense when you describe the balance of safety concerns. What everyone else seems to ignore is that as traffic gets congested, and speeds decrease, the amount of space needed between your car and the car in front of you to be safe decreases. In other words, when traffic gets congested enough to slow down, you can safely drive closer to the car in front of you without creating a hazard than you can at high speeds. However, IMHO, at high speeds, if you’re less than a car’s length from another car’s back bumper, you’re creating a situation that is more dangerous than the one that is created when someone else pulls into that space.
I’m not talking about staying so far back or driving so slow that everyone feels compelled to pass you. If you maintain pace with the car in front of you while maintaining a safe distance, passing you becomes irrelevant, because getting in front of you isn’t going to allow the driver to go any faster than he was when he was behind you, and he’ll just end up passing the car in front of you too. This is pretty basic logic here, not some attempt to rationalize or justify a behavior that, whether you call it tailgating or not, it is, and it’s unsafe.
You drive safely and arrive at your destination a couple minutes later than you would have otherwise.
HUH…How is that STOPPING other cars from cutting you off to fill in the gap you left between you and the car in front. When a car does that to you…then you slow down to get the safe gap back…and guess what it happens again. So again…how do you stop that?
Regardless of why you're tailgating, you're tailgating, and you're doing it deliberately because you're in some macho mindset where you're afraid to be less aggressive than the other drivers
So when you drive in New England…you’re saying that you can drive in such a manner that you’ll NEVER EVER be tailgating? That’s what you’re saying? I’ll be a years salary you can’t! Not during rush hour traffic…nope…NOT going to happen. You’ve obviously have NEVER EVER driven in New England…or you wouldn’t be making that statement.
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@Whitey
You are still not answering the question. Arriving at a destination a couple minutes late does not describe what is actually happening on the highway and what your reaction to such events is.
IMHO, at high speeds, if you're less than a car's length from another car's back bumper, you're creating a situation that is more dangerous than the one that is created when someone else pulls into that space.
Here you are speaking to the danger of being a car length (15 feet) behind another car, but your whole point is that 370 feet behind is still tailgating and is still aggressive.
Answer this question When travelling >380 feet behind someone, and another car enters this space, what do you do?
If you want to keep the 380 feet of distance, you will slow down until there is 380 feet again. Well if you slow down, more cars will feel a need to pass you. These cars will pass you and enter this 380 foot distance again. What do you do now that there is another new car in your safe keep out distance? Do you slow down more?
What do you do now that there is another new car in your safe keep out distance? Do you slow down more?
He answered that…he said it DOESN’T happen. Which anyone who’s driven I-93 or I-95 (aka 128) know that is a bunch of bull.
“Would you agree that there are some good drivers that can drive at 45mph and be safer than some very bad drivers at 30 mph.
If not that, do you agree that the reaction time of a very alert driver could be 2 seconds faster than an unaware 80 year old driver?”
I won’t beat around the bush . . . No, I don’t believe YOU drive safer at 45mph than the 80 year old driver at 30mph
It’s crystal clear that you rate your driving skills very highly . . . probably overrate them, in fact
I, for one, never told anybody I had great driving skills. But I don’t try to rationalize speeding
And you’re talking about your freedom being diminished, because of speed limits
You have the freedom to accept that speeding ticket
“But officer, I wasn’t doing anything unsafe, when I was going 45 in a 30. I was exercising my freedom”
And if you start talking about your “natural speed” the officer might think you’re ON speed.
Then he’s going to call in for backup, because you’re getting hauled in
@db4690 …
I won't beat around the bush . . .
Actually, beating around the bush is EXACTLY what you are doing. I didn’t ask if you thought my driving skills were that good, I asked if you thought the situation was realistic for some good driver and some bad driver.
My point being that speed limits are very arbitrary and that driving speed is only one of a LARGE number of factors that relate to driving safety.
And you're talking about your freedom being diminished, because of speed limits
No. Close, but no cigar. I’m more focused on the fact that causing an accident IS an act that violates someone elses freedom, but the act of driving fast DOESN’T limit or violate anyone elses freedom.
"But officer, I wasn't doing anything unsafe, when I was going 45 in a 30. I was exercising my freedom"
Where did you get the idea that this whole discussion somehow relates to how I or anyone else would react to being pulled over? I’m talking about problems in existing policies and laws, not saying anything about my plans to break them. Is there a problem with questioning existing laws, or should we accept all laws without question? Laws that never get questioned, never get changed.
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@starman1
Just admit it
You think you’re an awesome driver
You think you drive better speeding than somebody obeying the speed limits
You think the officer shouldn’t ticket you, because you’re a “safe” speeder
Even if you won’t admit it, that’s your way of thinking
I’m through with this discussion
I wish you the best in your speeding adventures . . . and the tickets you may or may not receive
@db4690
You think you're an awesome driverYes, but that is beside the point
You think you drive better speeding than somebody obeying the speed limitsYes, but that is also beside the point
You think the officer shouldn't ticket you, because you're a "safe" speederHere is where you go wrong. I believe that the officer should ticket me because it his job and duty to do so because of the laws. However I believe the laws should be changed. One of the multiple reasons is that "safe speeders" do exist, and maybe I'm one of them, maybe I'm not. It doesn't matter whether I actually drive as safe as I think I do, but it does matter that these people do exist, whoever and wherever they are.
@starman1
So by your reasoning there are also safe drunk drivers and therefor since they are safe they should not be arrested? So what we really need are custom tailored laws for specific groups of individuals? I think that is so far fetched as to be laughable. All we really need is one set of laws that cover everyone, pretty much as they do now. But we also need these self-entitling asses who think the world and everything in it is about them and their needs to recognize that their needs and/or wants do NOT take priority over anyone else s, and that they are the biggest part of the problem. The speed limits are what they are whether anyone likes them or not, deal with it. I don’t care if you are the best driver in the world, if you are driving like an idiot expect to be thought of and treated as such.