@kmccune
"how did that person ever get elected to start with"
Because, what ever people say about how independent thinking they are, when the curtain closes behind their back, the vast majority of declared party members vote just as they always have. Rs vote for Rs, Ds vote or Ds. All that is left is for each party to work on is voter turn out and use fear of the other guy. Once fear takes over, issues have little influence. If you run around all the time and call yourself one thing, R or D, conservative or liberal, you WILL vote that way most of the time.
Issues are less of a factor for the majority then you think and the only way you can really feel independent, is to officially declare yourself such and scape that tattoo of your backside that controls how you label your self. That is a necessary first step ! In areas where there actually are swings from one party to another where issue become important, declared independents are more prevalent with NO party affiliation.
That’s my theory…haven’t seen much to disprove it yet. Besides, candidates have to sound believable, not necessarily be believable with their party members.
If working immigrants ( who will NEVER BE DEPORTED BY THE MILLIONS) are given legal status, they are now under more jurisdiction of the Feds, local and state govts.
Basically what you’re proposing is we have complete open borders. And let anyone who wants to be a citizen become one. We did this once…now you’re proposing we do it again.
You don’t get to make up your own statements about what other people say by using an over use and trite CYA expression like the word “basically” and be expected to have someone take your comments seriously. @mikInNh “Basically what you’re proposing is we have complete open borders” and “be a citizen” Try quoting exactly what I said in it’s entirety next time…without any supposition and comment on that alone.
@kmccune I have to say advertising works, the superpacs can now advertise, and I just have to think back to Roosevelt,"President Roosevelt Exposes Republicans For Using Hitler’s ‘Big Lie’ Strategy President Roosevelt said this,
"Have you noticed that Republicans lie over and over about things that the whole world knows to be the opposite of what they say it is? Well there is a very real reason why they lie so much and why they all repeat the same lie, at the same time, over and over. Have you noticed how big Republicans’ lies are? President Roosevelt explained in detail why the Republicans lie so much, telling such big lies and why they tell that lie [whatever the lie of the day is] over and over. It was the strategic instructions of Hitler himself in his book ‘Mein Kampf.’
@texases
I don’t know if that’s exactly what was said. But, it’s tough to deny that party heads will stop at anything during election time to gain power. How many times did we hear that Obama robbed billions from Medicare to pay for his healthcare plan ? How many times did we hear that Obamacare would increase the deficit by trillions ? These are just two of many outright lies that was told by one side along with actually obstruting citizen voting rights…which in itself is an affront to democracy and about as close to denying ones personal freedom as you can get by government agencies. What about blaming SS for our national debt which both sides are discussing ? I’m sure we can come up with more and many on both sides.
And, the really big one on the part of both Obama and Romney…they both blame mortgage holders for the last mortgage crisis…as if THEY lost the money, all tied up in gimmicks and sent on it’s way onto the market, a place it should never be. The banks were incentivized to loan to every Tom, Dick and Harry and the legits were left holding the bag too. Lieing IS the new norm during elections and the bigger the better and THAT WAS A BIG ONE. To lightly explain away why we had to turn billions of taxpayer money back over to them while they sat on our property and gains from our misfortune. The banks and their cohorts in the market double dipped; got our property and money in the near crash and our bailout with no gurantee. If that wasn’t one of the biggest lies of the century…,what was ?
With all due respect, I heard no mention of “we the people” doing the lying. But, " we the people", both registered Ds and Rs are doing the believing and voting some real beauties into office on the backs of these and other lies…
@dagosa -
" How many times did we hear that Obama robbed billions from Medicare to pay for his healthcare plan ? How many times did we hear that Obamacare would increase the deficit by trillions ? These are just two of many outright lies that was told by one side "
Interesting you bring up those ‘outright lies’. The fact is, deficit reductions from the healthcare plan will likely NEVER OCCUR. Why? To achieve the savings claimed by the plan, Medicare payouts to physicians will be DRASTICALLY reduced. It’s already difficult for folks to find doctors willing to accept Medicare. Guess what will happen when the payouts are cut? MANY folks will be unable to find treatment. More about it here:
The plan ‘balances the books’ by magically reducing payouts, a reduction that in all likelihood will have to be reversed if folks are to receive any care. Eliminate the reduction and the deficit impact of the plan EXPLODES.
The Medicare Trustees even admit it, stating:
““For these reasons, the financial projections shown in this report for Medicare do not represent a reasonable expectation for actual program operations in either the short range (as a result of the unsustainable reductions in physician payment rates) or the long range (because of the strong likelihood that the statutory reductions in price updates for most categories of Medicare provider services will not be viable).””
So this is an example of a ‘big lie’ that isn’t, at all. Folks love to toss that term around when they disagree with somebody. That way they avoid having to deal with the facts.
If working immigrants ( who will NEVER BE DEPORTED BY THE MILLIONS) are given legal status, they are now under more jurisdiction of the Feds, local and state govts. They can then enforce minimum wage laws, working conditions and importantly , collect taxes for their services while dealing with the businesses that hire them in a more equitable way as the businesses would no longer be breaking the law pertaining to hiring of illegals.
So you’re in favor of open borders?? Let anyone in who wants in??
Does anyone think that the GOP would actually follow through with legislation that would force the illegals aliens out of the country?
The GOP has found that it is safe to continue to waltz, howl, rant and threaten on the “secure the border” non issue. Doing so allows them to appear “staunch defenders” of the country as they argue behind closed doors to ensure that the inevitable amnesty will not allow aliens citizenship for at least a generation. The GOP wants a non voting, easily intimidated low wage workforce for the construction, agriculture and hospitality industries. Properly configured, amnesty will be a win-win-win for the GOP.
@texases please note that was a quote from President Roosevelt. I was thinking about trickle down economics, tax cuts for the rich, and cuts to social programs as a proposed economic solution after years of failure.
obamacare seems to be little more than state mandated extortion. classic bait and switch. he simply made it illegal not to pay the insurance industry. disgusting. I did not support him but thought that at least we would get rid of the extortion racket that is the insurance industry. stupid me.
@texases I never called you a liar unless you are a firm believer in the trickle down economy as in the link I posted, then take it personally, Reread if you need.
Sorry if you think it was a personal attack, it was not!
To trot out quotes about lying Republicans, and how it’s just like what Hitler did, can only be taken personally. No different than Tea Partiers putting Obama on signs with a Hitler mustache. Equally disgusting.
So @MikeInNH…Is that some kind of way of diverting attention from what the quote is really about ? That is .,what do we do now with the estimated, 12 million immigrants who are here illegally ? OPEN BORDERS IS NO WHERE TO BE FOUND IN MY QUOTE
So, you heard my plan for the 12 million…what’s yours ?
@rodknox
It’s extremely difficult for both sides to talk about solutions on immigration when one side…has no side. GOP still has the official position, " how can we get Latinos to vote for us " on the immigration issue. They can’t even wrap their minds around…,a solution. Their entire existence seems to be focused on getting elected, next time.
@texases
I must be living in Oz. I have no problem finding doctors to treat me or my wife now on Medicare. Of course, I have not asked for cosmetic surgery. As a matter of fact, payments to several of my healthcare providers have them say they are more efficiently paid. Whatever the short term plan is, the long term solution is single payer which is going to save money over for profit healthcare Tell me, who will insure the elderly if not the govt
You gotta remember both sides get it wrong. Hoover turned out to be one of FDR’s best associates so he may have used the rhetoric to get his way during the war but turned to Hoover to organize the government and deliver effective war programs.