How can the owner afford that 105-ft yacht if he pays the mechanics better? Yes, a local dealer did own such a yacht until the bottom fell out of the market in 2008. I’m certain of it since I bought a Chevy from one of his dealerships in 2009 as it went out of business. I asked the finance manager about his yacht and she said he chose to sell it.
Well, I can tell you what I have observed . . .
Many mechanics stay at a dealership for a few years, at which point their hourly flat rate is maxed out. Then they contact another dealer, who offers them 1 or 2 dollars more, flat rate. They spend a few years there, until they’re maxed out. then they go somewhere else
Then it comes full circle. And the guy is back at the starting place, earning significantly more money than when he left
I suppose the idea is, if a dealership wants to “steal” a mechanic away from another dealership, they need to offer him more
one of the problems with dealerships is that there are always young kids showing up, who just graduated from trade school, and can be hired cheaply. When mechanics ask for a raise, the manager can always point to the young kids and mention that they’re willing to work cheap, so why do you think you deserve a raise?
The OP stated that when asked if they needed to be discreet the mechanic said don’t worry about it but was looking around the lot. To me that means a bit of nervousness about being seen so the deal was likely under the table.
Offhand, the place sounds like a circus and it’s quite possible that mechanic, and all the rest, are getting screwed over on a daily basis. Sneaking side jobs in may be a way of getting back at management and aiding the paycheck which is short because of the hosing they’re getting.
As to 40% commission I’ve never made that and don’t know anyone who has. Tops for me has been about 35%. One time I was promised 50% commission at a Subaru dealer where I worked.
Subaru required every dealer to have at least one Subaru Master Tech. To attain that one had to attend a service school in a certain area (suspension, electrical, A/C, emissions, transmission, etc), wait a minimum of 30 days, and take a test in that particular area.
Two years later I finally made it and the day my last 2 certs came in I went to my boss about that promised 50% and was then told my 35% should be good enough. Fine. I had 2 weeks vacation coming up in a couple of months and I used that time to line up another job. Nissan hired me on immediately but I told them I was going to finish out 1 more week at the old dealer so as to clean up the loose odds and ends. On Friday at 4 P.M. I walked into the front lobby and started taking down all of my paper and gave them my 2 seconds notice. When asked why I just said I don’t like being lied to. Adios amigos.
And I’m by no means one of only a few mechanics who have had to deal with this kind of thing. It’s always something…everywhere. 
Well I am getting old but I paid 40% to every mechanic I employed over the years and guaranteed them a weekly base. Several bought nice homes and all supported their families quite well. And my family was kept well fed despite paying 40%. Of course dealerships throw a great deal of fixed cost onto their shop that independents can avoid.
Loyalty between an employer and an employee is a two way street. Back in the early 1980s we needed some extra money as my wife was in school. The university where I taught had a maximum of $400 per credit unit for an overloaad class. However, the Dean of the College of Sciences where my departmenr waa housed, would only allow $200 per credit unit, even though the funding for overload classes didn’t come out of his budget. My department chair wanted me to teach a statistics course for $200 a credit unit. At the same time, the College of Business wanted me to teach their statistics course and offered me the university maximum of $400 per credit unit. I aacepted the offer from the College of Business. My department chair accused me of not being loyal to the department and College of Sciences. I suggested to him that loyalty is a,two way street.
I guess it depends where you work and what the product is. My daughter worked part time at a clothing store while she was in college. She could buy clothing with her discount for her sisters as long as she didn't do it too often. Her supervisor was aware that she did it.
I guarantee you the rules for the discount were spelled out clearly. Your daughter is NOT allowed to give the discount away at HER DISCRETION, If all the employees did that the store would be out of business.
As for the mechanic doing side work using the dealerships equipment. Besides thins already mentioned…if I owned the dealership I’d be concerned about liability. What would happen if he got hurt while working on a car after hours. That employee better be very trustworthy or I’d aslo be worried about theft.
Way too many things for me to believe the owner knew and approved this behavior.
@MikeInNH
“What would happen if he got hurt while working on a car after hours.”
That exact scenario happened to me. I was working on my sister-in-law’s car, after hours. I had cleared it with my bosses. They told me to lock up when I was done
Anyways, I got cut BAD and needed to go to a clinic to get several stitches
I’m sad to say, because of me, nobody was allowed to stay after hours anymore.
I was bleeding badly enough that I couldn’t drive myself to the clinic. Fortunately, the porter who drives customers to and from their work/homes was still there, so he drove me. He actually got queasy at the sight of the blood
I was not allowed to work for 2 weeks, during which time I earned no money at all. No workmen’s comp, no restricted duty, nothing. It was financially devastating
The next day the other guys saw the trail of blood and concluded that somebody got messed up real bad
I begged and pleaded with the the bosses to let me work. I had gotten stitched a few times before, and it didn’t seem like a big deal. They were worried about the liability, and wouldn’t hear of it.
If I hadn’t needed stitches, I would have thrown a bandaid at it and kept quiet. But it was way past that point. I made a vow to myself. As long as I work for those guys, I’m not ever going to report any workplace injuries that don’t require several stitches
Thankfully, I left that job several years ago, and got a better one. My benefits are much better, and I get paid when I get hurt. Unlike the other place
db4690 We were allowed to work on our personal vehicles on Saturday only. This was on a case by case basis approved by the owner. As far as I know he only refused twice when it was very doubtful the projects could be completed during the 8 hour period which the service department was open on Saturdays limited to lube/oil filter and air filter replacement for customers. I only took advantage of this 3 times. A throttle linkage repair/modification. A tune up. Since my car was a Ford and the dealership was GM I furnished my own parts. Adding 2 turbo mufflers which were purchased Friday using my employee discount. I was adding the mufflers after I was pulled over by LAPD and given a verbal warning that my 30 inch glass packs were a bit too loud. Interestingly they never questioned my California drivers license being months older than my recently renewed Oregon registration.
@"Rod Knox" I paid 40% to every mechanic I employed In today’s market that would mean over $40/hour for a decent tech in an average shop, over $80K/year for a full time tech that keeps busy. I can tell you there aren’t very many 80K a year guys out there right now, and those that do spend a substantial amount of their own time and money on staying that way.
What kind of productivity did you have? Last flat-rate job I worked I averaged 119% over a 3 year period–that means 9.5 hours billed for every 8 hours worked for those non-industry types out there.
Corporate greed and public ignorance about auto service are killing the flat-rate mechanic. GM now pays .3 for a driveability complain under warranty. So that $40/hour top-flight technician gets paid $13 and change to find a car in the lot, drive it, hook up scan tools and meters and diagnose poor running condition.
The gravy-line B techs aren’t doing much better. All those ads for AC Delco brake pads installed for $109 mean that the tech is getting paid about half an hour. Firestone will flat-rate a brake job (install pads, machine rotors, lube slides) for .8, and that includes the inspection. So an average mechanic at Firestone working for $20 flat rate gets $16 to drive a car, do a safety inspection, brake inspection, do the brake job, then drive it again. And you wonder why quality work is hard to come by.
It’s been a while since I was running the payroll @Asemaster. But I do recall that there were few weeks that good mechanic’s flat rate wasn’t well in excess of 40 hours. 120% seems like it’s in the ball park. As a rule a mechanic had at least 2 vehicles in at the same time and the key to making money was removing a water pump on one while turning rotors/drums for another. And a good mechanic never takes one car out to drive until the radiator was draining and engine cooling on the car getting a cylinder head R&R, etc. But I didn’t have a time clock and the good mechanics learned to look beyond quitting time and payday. If at 3:00 there were 2 brake jobs out front and a man was test driving a just completed job he would take one of the brake jobs in knowing that it would be finished even if that required working until 5:00.
Work ethics vary a great deal and somehow over the years I was lucky enough to have a few mechanics who were above average in there abilities and their work ethics to happen up to my door and get hired and stayed with me for many years each. They remain friends and are doing well now. Very well in fact.
@Rod Knox, sounds like you had a good operation. With new car dealers flat rate becomes a completely different ballgame and especially with warranty work.
VW and SAAB was pretty decent on labor times and pretty good to deal with. Honda and Nissan not so good. Subaru, in my opinion, is the next level below the bottom of the outhouse.
Driveability issue caused by a failed part that pays .2 hours to replace? All diagnostics included in the .2 for the part replacement.
Electrical troubleshooting? Again .2 hours. It was claimed that .5 could be had if explained clearly but it never happened.
A/C leak? How about .2 hours to replace not one, but all of the seals in the A/C system. An additional .5 was allowed for evacuation, recharging, and leak checks. Note all those numbers have a decimal point preceding them.
The manual transaxle is very complex technically to rebuild and unlike a lot of gearboxes the gears, hubs, etc on the main and countershafts in a Subaru have to be forced on and off with a press. About 6 hours which includes the R & R from the car.
In special circumstances Subaru would state that pre-approval should be gotten. They would pre-approve something, the car would be repaired, and then Subaru would deny the claim.
I can’t even count the number of times I’ve gotten crossways with them both as a mechanic or as a shop foreman sticking up for a mechanic.
You can see how difficult it is to make hours with flat rate times like that and it’s also not conducive to morale or the shop bottom line.
Over the years several dealerships brought me cars with difficult to diagnose problems, usually from their used car lot but more than once new car dealers paid me to diagnose a problem on a car still in warranty and I don’t know how they pulled that off but the checks all cleared. I understood on several occasions that the shop threatened to walk out if a problem car was brought back in since diagnosis was only paid once for a problem and it seemed every mechanic in the shop had wasted many hours working for free.
The business model for dealerships seems to throw all overhead for the entire business from the show room to the wash station onto the shop and then the shop flat rate is set so outrageously high as to discourage the vast majority of the public from bringing in their car after the warranty runs out. It seems like really poor planning to me. But I am grateful for the success that I had and some of that success I owe to local dealers throwing customers to me and sometimes even being my customer.
One of the local GM dealerships had a large shop and I was told that their highest paid mechanic was the man who inspected all the used cars. The check list was quite extensive and somehow he was able to rack up some great flat rate hours “certifying” used cars. Imagine that.
Guys, I have to tell you that I’ve learned a great deal from your discussion about the way automotive dealerships use and treat their shops and mechanics. You’ve all confirmed a lot of things that I suspected and have been told by friends who’ve worked in dealership shops.
I just wanted to tell you guys that you’re not alone in your frustrations. The industries I’ve spent my life in, manufacturing and academia, are no better., and the problems start at the top in those industries too. I knew that and witnessed it even when I was one of the guys at the top, which I was for years. I might have even been the root of a few problems (I’ll skip those stories {:-)).
I wanted to give you guys a “thumbs up”. Your knowledge, expertise, and dedication are obvious in the forum threads, and so is the fact that you care about people. That last one will always show through.
Sincere thanks,
TSM
The Benz dealer I worked at made it virtually impossible to earn a decent living
The factory standards for replacing something under warranty were already outrageous. But then the dealership itself would make you go well above and beyond what was required. And all that stuff above and beyond was naturally not paid for
To the point that by the time a mechanic got the go ahead for a major warranty repair, he was already so far behind, he would have absolutely 0% chance of braking even on the repair
The manager wanted to look like an angel. He wanted his paperwork and stuff to look much better than what the manufacturer required. At one point, the manufacturer sent representatives over to talk to him. They told him they knew what he was doing, and they said it wouldn’t get him preferential treatment or more cars to sell. In fact, they told him he was stupid, and that his actions were costing the mechanics and the dealership money, because the mechanics could be making money for the dealer, instead of unnecessary stuff, which wasn’t paid for
He told them he didn’t care, and he would continue to do it his way, even if it wasn’t efficient
Getting approval for some repairs felt as if you were the circus tiger jumping through the burning ring of fire. Ridiculous
Some of the mechanics that earned okay money were the ones that claimed they never heard those annoying squeaks and rattles that the customer complained of. They would turn in the repair order as cnd . . . can not duplicate. Next!
When tracing and fixing warranty noises, and hardcore warranty electrical diagnosis, the shop required you to start the clock on “non-time.” The idea was that you would get paid time spent. Except they never did pay “non-time.” In all my years there, I never got paid non-time. You would tell the boss “Yes sir, I’ll start on non-time right now. Thank you.” Fully well knowing you wouldn’t get paid
Even though they clearly heard the noise, because you couldn’t not hear it. And then the customer would take their car and return in a few days. And the next mechanic wasn’t allowed to play that game. He was forbidden to take on another repair until the noise was gone, and the shop foreman verified the noise was gone
And you wonder why people left the dealer, or even left the profession altogether . . . !
Just my opinion, but on average mechanics have a bad reputation; sometimes deserved, oftentimes not. The dealership “system” sucks because almost every dealer flat doesn’t care if the service department exists and would actually prefer that it be gone immediately.
Ideally, every mechanic should be certified in all areas or maybe one area if they’re a specialist and maybe licensed by the state after taking an exam. Any exam should be lengthy and brutal; say like the aircraft mechanic exam I took. Forty something pages and 6 hours allotted.
I flunked all 3 sections miserably the first time around. Some months later I went to the FAA center and pretty much nailed it the second time on all sections.
It could weed out those who don’t care. One guy turned his test in after 20 minutes with a ho-hum attitude and “I’m gonna flunk it anyway…:” comment.
Every mechanic should be paid a decent guaranteed wage each week against a commission so that flat rate sword is not cutting into the neck every second of every workday. High blood pressure, homicidal tendencies, and the urge to screw customer B over because the mechanic got hosed on customer A’s car would all go away.
All front counter people (managers, service writers) should be older people who have at least 10 years of wrenching under their belt and grease under their nails.
Pipe dreams though…
This only scratches the surface…
Has Elvis left the building? Where’s the OP? Nice discussion, but I think it’s over. Good and lively discussion though. Rocketman
I agree. I did like OK4450’s video, however.
Ideally, every mechanic should be certified in all areas or maybe one area if they’re a specialist and maybe licensed by the state after taking an exam. Yeah, my barber had to go to barber college, pass an exam, and be licensed to cut hair. Like a lousy haircut ever hurt or cost anyone anything. But any idiot can call himself a mechanic.
Every mechanic should be paid a decent guaranteed wage each week against a commission so that flat rate sword is not cutting into the neck every second of every workday Only those that deserve it. I think everyone should experience working flat-rate because it teaches good things as well as bad. Efficiency is the key to production. I had a guy here who was a perfect fit in the shop other than being horrendously slow. He was competent, capable, personable, always early, did quality work, but slow. He just didn’t get being efficient. He had a 60K service, we upsold front brakes and new belts. I watched him finish the brakes, hand-torque the wheels, lower the car off the hoist, and then see that the belts were accessed through the wheel well. Back on the hoist, pull the front wheel–all wasted time. I finally let him go, because in my opinion he was a thief. He regularly stole time (and therefore money) from the shop by working that way.
All front counter people (managers, service writers) should be older people who have at least 10 years of wrenching under their belt and grease under their nails. My ideal front counter/service writer would be a 30-something woman with great people and language skills, sales training, and just a basic understanding of auto technology.
@asemaster
I might have fired the guy for being incompetent and inefficient, not for being a thief
I certainly hope you didn’t tell him you fired him for being a thief and stealing time
@db4690
Would you fire a guy for taking a gallon of antifreeze off the shelf and taking it home? You started the day with 20 gallons to sell, he took one, now you only have 19 to sell. He stole from you, he cost you a gallon of antifreeze.
I start every day with 8 hours of labor time to sell. If a guy takes one of those hours and doesn’t leave me with anything to sell for it, is that different than stealing merchandise?
It was heartbreaking to let him go. He was a great guy by almost any measure–well-tooled, got along with everyone, experienced, good sense of humor, but just too darn slow. We had a Camry dropped off late one afternoon for noisy brakes. Pulled wheels, found rears grinding, ordered parts. When he came in the next morning at 8 we had drums, shoes, cyls, hardware sitting there, car still on the hoist. He started on it right away, pulled out for test drive at 11:15. I simply can not have a guy spend 3+hours hanging rear brakes on a car.