They’er, not there’s
BTW, this about the same amount of money that the feds are giving to Planned Parenthood.
Wow. Take that up with the Constitution. Congress IS the body that decides this (no "should" about it). That having been said, I think the military should have been listened to.
Yes congress has the responsibility for raising money for the military (Article I, Section 8 clause 16 of the constitution). But no where in the constitution does it say that congress will have ANY decision on HOW the militia will do it’s job. That power belongs to the executive branch (Article Section II).
Congress has NO power dictating to the Army or Navy what weapons they need or should have. They have the power to raise money for weapons…but NOT the power to FORCE unwanted or unneeded weapons upon them.
Please show me where it says congress has that power.
Yes Keith. I was too tired to be ditzing around on the internet.
Please show me where it says congress has that power.
Well, what they can do is give the Army money earmarked for Abrams 2.0. If the Army chooses not to spend it, they’ll be penalized by getting less money next budget cycle, even if there’s something in that cycle that they actually need.
Well, what they can do is give the Army money earmarked for Abrams 2.0. If the Army chooses not to spend it, they'll be penalized by getting less money next budget cycle, even if there's something in that cycle that they actually need.
The Army is NOT spending the money…that’s the point. Congress is spending it FOR THEM. The Army would like the money to be applied to other area’s…but they are prevented from doing so. I don’t see how Congress can know what the Army needs or doesn’t need without asking them…or ignoring them and deciding what they need in what appears a vacuum.
Kind of hard to trim the budget if you have this type of blockers.
Will anthropologists one day study the artifacts of the United States and wonder why the country was so infatuated with military conflict. Some future text book might consider the infinite rows of tanks and aircraft and ships and compare them to the Moai. Will the military power that we worship become our worst enemy?
Beware the Military-Industrial Complex - Eisenhower
With all due respect, Congress authorizes the expenditure but the Executive Branch actually spends it. Congress doesn’t spend it. Normally the Executive Branch requests funding from Congress then it is voted on but Congress of course can allocate the funds whether they are wanted or not and can also dictate the terms.
I understand Eisenhauer’s concerns after WWII, but we were really really unprepared for WWII and took quite a bit to tool up for the equipment needed. I would hate to get caught in another major conflict and be sitting there without the tools to meet the challenge is all. The other thing is Reserve components and National Guard units need to have their equipment levels restored so that they are available for immediate and local needs. Quite a bit of it was shipped out over the past years.
"Congress has NO power dictating to the Army or Navy what weapons they need or should have. They have the power to raise money for weapons...but NOT the power to FORCE unwanted or unneeded weapons upon them. "
Mike, are you kidding me? You must have never dealt with the federal budget. The military puts in requests for stuff, but it is Congress that writes and approves the budget. The administration is then authorized to spend that money from the budget, congress does not spend the money, only allocates it. Therefore, as part of the administration, the Army does spend the money.
Let me give you a couple of bad examples. I was in a squadron of F-14A’s. Someone inadvertently damaged a multi pin connector. The connector was a couple grand, but because the logistics geniuses calculated that that connector would not be needed in the supply system for another 5 years or so, there wasn’t one in the system. The connector had to be made a line item in the federal budget in order to get one, that takes about three years. Grumman loaned us a connector for the three years, otherwise that plane could not have been flown.
Now that program about base closure and realignment someone mentioned. What a colossal waste of money. Back in the 60’s, a plan for three tri-service training bases was hatched. A Navy base in TN, an AF base in IL and an army base in GA were slated to provide basic aviation training to all three services. The Navy would do all avionics training, the AF would do all airframes training and the Army would do the powerplants. After $2B was spent in building the facilities, this program came along and all three bases were slated for closing.
The Navy base is now the manpower command for the Navy, a good idea as it got them out of that expensive Crystal City in Arlington, VA, but there were several buildings that were in construction or slated for construction to support the training that was no longer going to be done there. You would think they would stop these projects, but no, congress had allocated that money to be spent on those buildings and the construction was completed on all of them.
The fact is, while the constitution may not give congress the power to force unwanted weapons systems on the military, congress none the less exercises that power through the budget process. Occasionally congress does let the military have its way, but not very often. They tried to force the Navy to get the F-111, but no one could get the thing to land on a carrier and it was too heavy for the catapults, so eventually they got the F-14 instead.
I might add here that the military isn’t always right about its needs either. The Army fought tooth and nail against the M-15 but congress made them accept it anyway. The Air Force absolutely did not want the A-10 and did everything it could to kill it. And no one wanted the F-4 Phantom.
Planned parenthood…350 million
Military budget…618 billion
Planned parenthood serves 3 million people per year.
While, the ADDITIONAL one hundred million planned on tanks, the pentagon doesn’t even want and say they don’t even need. This is in addition to the normal 255 million in replacement costs and upkeep of tanks they already have. This total cost to the tank weapons system will be greater then the cost to planned parenthood.
Prior to planned parenthood, the largest cause of deaths among women of childbearing age, was abortions. I guess that doesn’t matter.
The GOP wants and has always wanted to kill people more efficiently by denying funds to planned parenthood and adding unnecessary funding for more killing machines.
You get a new toy, the GOP often votes to use it. Now they are saber rattling about Libia and North Korea and Iran. It’s good for American business to kill more people abroad and at home. Eventually, if the top one percent have their way, they will increase the wealth as a percent of those who are left, by being the only ones left.
Great strategy.
The military puts in requests for stuff, but it is Congress that writes and approves the budget.
Re-Read the link I provided…the Army NEVER PUT THE REQUEST IN. They didn’t want it. Congress decided for them that they need it…which is just plain stupid.
As for the M/16…The Army DID want a weapon replacement for the M-14. The first gen of the M16 was proved troublesome…but they still wanted a replacement for the M14. So I wouldn’t say they were FORCED to accept it. I can’t speak for the Air-Force planes. But I was in Nam using the M-16. Luckily I had a later version (non troublesome).
In either case…it’s a waste. It MAY be the way the federal budget committee works with the military…but that doesn’t JUSTIFY it. I sure wouldn’t be proud of that.
Sounds just like the $ 600.00 toilet seat years ago.
Typical goverment supply chain.
demand a specific design…have that newly engineered , blue printed, developed and freshly tooled for production.
Calculate THOSE expenses divided by the quantity requested …= $600.00 toilet seat.
Which, by the way , already exists on the open public maket…exactly to their precision design specs…for $29.95 !
When a government facility has a specific piece of equipment in mind and must go through the bid process they ask the supplier of the equipment to write the requirement sheet to eliminate all other similar competitive products. BTDT. But the GSA system took half the markup out of the sale and with it half my commission.
The $600 toilet seat is definitely a problem.
But sometimes it’s NOT as straight forward as that. I know of a $5000 ashtray. Why it cost so much was that the Airforce wanted to add a ashtray into one of their radar consoles AFTER the radar was already designed and into production. This meant the blue-prints had to be pulled and re-done…steps added to production…existing ones retrofitted with ashtray. So sometimes it’s not so obvious. But far too many times it’s a total waste of taxpayers money.
Bing, I agree and emphatically support a strong military, but those resources should be as the army requests for its mission readiness. I too have read that the Army did not want that tank. And, like Mike, I think the process in congress, appropriating billions for programs because they’re in a powerful member’s state or district rather than based on need, is appalling. The history of appropriations is littered with such projects. And they claim the need to cut back on Air Traffic Controllers…bah!
Fortunately, the $600 toilet seat days are over. They gave sergeants credit cards to buy basic supplies like hand and power tools they need. I worked with a sergeant in the 1990s that had a $5000 limit on his card. Did that bother me? Absolutely not. He earned the trust required to have that high credit limit.
BTW, the $600 toilet seat was on an AF plane; a heavy lift cargo jet, IIRC. They do have different requirements than ground based toilet seats. But I understand your point and agree with it.
There was never a $600 toilet, just a stupid reporter. What the reporter thought was a toilet set was a structural part of the aircraft that the toilet seat was attached to, the toilet seat was only $12.
Well, if we build tanks than we need to build/buy a capable anti-tank attack aircraft and support the air force to maintain the planes. And our enemies need to build and pay for the same things.