Right, cigroller, and CSA thinks we all live in towns and cities because we are crazy. He forgets his U.S. history, including the industrial revolution, when people had to move to the cities for jobs. Trust me, if I had my druthers, I would live in an area as pristine and clean as he does, but not all of us can afford his lifestyle.
There really are two Americas. There’s one where Country Club Republicans look down on the “little people,” and there’s one where people have to work for a living. To the Country Club Republicans, the rest of us are crazy for wanting clean air and clean water where the jobs are.
And, FWIW, I have favored a federal tax on fuels and large displacement engines for 30 years. I would prefer that the government get $1./gal in taxes than it go to the oil companies. And if there had been a $1 tax added 30 years ago where would the price of gasoline be today? What would the average car look like? And how profitable would the multi-national oil companies be? You tell me.
If you have a septic tank and a well, doesn’t that mean you are drinking and bathing in your own waste? Please tell me you buy bottled water. Pleeeeeeeease!
The rest of the world either hates US or envies US it seems, cigroller. But I am as cynical and skeptical as I am pragmatic. And being surrounded by Tea Party conservatives I find most of my differences of opinion put me on the liberal side of the argument here at home. You wouldn’t believe the hard core Right Wing listeners of Limbaugh and Beck. And these people think that Reagan should be Sainted.
Neither the well nor the septic tank are being utilized since the city decided they wanted my tax money. But the well is over 750 ft deep and the septic tank has no effect on it. Water in the aquifer fell as rain 500 years ago according to the experts. Both were used for years and we didn’t seem to suffer any ill effects.
Cigroller, I find it ironic that your father and his pals scorn “environmentalists” for trying to preserve the very “environment” that your father enjoys on his nice big 5 acres surrounded by woods and ponds. Most “environmentalists” I know would give their right arm to live on 5 acres like that.
Do they also scorn the “environmentalists” for being concerned that climate change is killing the maple syrup industry in the Northeast, because the winters are getting so warm that the maple trees aren’t producing enough sap?
Do they also scorn the “environmentalists” for being concerned about the pine bark beetles that are devastating the Rocky Mountain lodgepole pines, because the warmer winters aren’t killing off the pine beetles?
Too bad the only “environment” they care about is their own little 5 acres. If nothing bad is happening in their own back yard, well then, who cares what’s happening in the Rockies or the Northeast or the Arctic?
It’s interesting that the FOX network is owned by an… Australian who comes from a thoroughly “socialist” country. The right wing drivel and propaganda on this network is precisely the reason it is profitable. Rupert Murdoch (the owner) knows that there is a significant ultra right wing and gullible audience in the US to make this network profitable.
If he tried this same recipe in countries that are well developed “socialist” societies, such as Denmark, Sweden or Norway, he would be laughed off the air. The viewers would regard it as entertainment at best.
Its not a question of whether anyone actually cares or not. One of the tricky things is that everyone is an environmentalist in one way or another. I’m not trying to pick on my father or anything either. He’s a classic conservationist. (There are many ways to be an “environmentalist.”)
The issue is about whether or not people believe a) that certain kinds of disasters/problems are actually occurring, and b) even if they are, whether or not they have anything whatsoever to do with human activity.
In general, people who are skeptical about many environmental claims tend to think that a) much of the disaster story stuff is either made up in someone’s interests (part of some “liberal hoax”) and/or that it is making mountains out of mole hills (chicken little stuff); and b) that whatever is going on in terms of the environment is pretty much all just natural process stuff, and not something humans induce. (One thing that is little discussed these days is that fact that the globe’s history is not one of stability either in terms of lifeforms or climate).
What I was pointing out was not a lack of caring, but the potential that one’s take on such things will be strongly influenced by his/her own direct experience. My dad, for instance, has lived in the same place for going on 60 years. In terms of “natural” environment nothing has changed all that much in his whole 60-something years. I was just saying that its plausible that this leads one to be highly skeptical of environmental disaster scenarios.
But there is a vast difference of opinion regarding whether there is global warming and if so what the cause is.
My daughter just got accepted into Harvard for her Doctorate in Chemical Engineering. She finished up at MIT and spent a year working/research. The evidence to Global Warming is overwhelming. The world IS getting warmer. There is some debate as to how much influence Man has to it’s cause…but that evidence is just too hard to ignore also. The biggest debates now in this field…is the outcome. You’ll see a very very diverse opinions on where the man-made global warming will take us. The earth is a very complicated chaotic system that has many checks and balances. Some believe that we are harming the atmosphere so much we’ll never be able to recover that will lead into polar ice caps melting which will desalinize the oceans which will trigger an ice-age. Others at the other extreme believe that the earth will automatically adjust to what ever Man does. Obviously very extreme views. All the research now is not to figure out if there is Global Warming (evidence too overwhelming to ignore it), but what will the outcome be.
You wouldn’t believe the hard core Right Wing listeners of Limbaugh and Beck.
NO…NO…The people people that listen to Limbaugh and Beck ARE COMPLETELY WACO. I just can’t believe how STUPID these people are. Beck and Limbaugh have completely rewritten our American History into their image. And I’ve meet some of these people…Most are uneducated…barely graduated high-school…haven’t a clue about any single aspect of American History…and NOT one of them EVER served in the Military…but are more then happy to send your sons and daughters into war for THEIR benefit.
The green leaves are for added profits, not environmental ethics. A national company leases and services parts washing machines and brags about their green leaf but their only efforts are rhetorical. Whoever awards the green leaf would appear to do so based on donations. The company’s representatives were just a few steps above mafia hoodlums in their shake downs to force using their products and services yet the contract for the washer left the consumer responsible for the “hazardous waste” from the time it left their shop until forever it seemed. So the company could never be guilty of polluting. And when another product was used the EPA was soon at your doorstep inspecting the equipment. It was part of the shake down, apparently.
Trying to better ourselves is a good thing, but taking the high road with overzealous regulations is putting us at the bottom of the heap.
I think the current administration is realizing that over regulating small businesses is killing the economy and job growth.
I ask the county for a building permit to install a lean to roof over a concrete pad outside the back part of the shop.
I had the health inspector show up,sanitation engineer,environmental impact study conducted,codes and compliance inspector report. All this just to have a little shade over a 10x20 concrete pad behind the building.
I was told not to hire anymore employees. I ask how many employees I could have, since I had two working bathrooms. I was told"I don’t know", I ask if they knew how many employees I currently had .Again “I don"t know”. So how can you tell me not to hire anymore employees?
Huh? All this over a lean to? This happened in Yorktown Va. Home of our last battle of independence from overregulation by a King.
I am really on board with recycling. I felt bad about throwing away an old metal Christmas tree stand that could have been recycled, but maybe it was picked up by one of those guys looking for recyclables to trash. I think what a gold mine of aluminum cans etc. must be in the old landfills from the 70’s. I joke the carbon credits must be working, see how cold we are? There is the over the top bs, but then there are things we can do on a day to day to reuse and recycle. One memory is of my wife’s mother saving every paper bag, she grew up in the depression and you had to save everything. We are a little spoiled that we do not appreciate that philosophy, and we have some ways to go to be eco freindly.
Browner is just another political hack and lobbyist, like her lawyer husband, who cash in on policy tweaks. Don’t dance in the streets yet as she will be replaced by a equally worthless clone.
e was also the person during the Carter administration who thought that motorcycles would be safer if the rear wheels were steerable. Even after being told by the engineers it was not feasible she still plowed ahead with this debacle at great taxpayer expense. Even the best rider could not keep it upright for more than 10 feet.
Obama is a Socialist. While he does not call himself that his own words leave no doubt.
Question. My late mother was a hard core liberal Democrat whose only point of discussion when politics were raised was, “the Republicans only care about big shots. The Democrats care about me”. Pure and simple, that was it in sum total.
If Person A needs to have their check whacked to help out Person B then that is fine and ducky.
Back in the 80s I worked for a dealer who (tried) to put everyone in the shop on a team pay plan. This meant that all hours were pooled and divided by the number of mechanics. This also means that a hard worker had to give up part of his paycheck to other mechanics who were slackers or taking off one day a week “sick” so they could go fishing. My mother thought this policy was horrible and had no response when I asked, “well, what’s the difference between that and the government doing the same thing?”
My question. If you were working for a company that initiated this Mini-Socialim Plan would you:
A. Be dead set against it?
B. Welcome it with open arms because it makes everything fair?
(the word fair was the word used when this plan was first tried)
Ok, if you want to maintain this simple “Obama is a socialist” thing then you’ll have to provide your working definition of Socialism.
Whatever it is it won’t be what socialists think or how social scientists define it. So you’ll just be making up your own terms of discussion. That’s fine, I suppose but then you can’t have a discussion because that’s when everybody’s talking past each other. In formal definitional terms socialism is state ownership of the means of production (all the stuff we need to do economic production - from factories to land, etc.) For those of you out there who enjoy “democracy” it pays to recall the state is “the people” - that’s what democracy means. Actual socialists - like people who join such organizations and political parties are radically democratic above all else.
Wealth redistribution, which seems to be what you are actually talking about isn’t socialist because it makes sense as a policy only in a non-socialist kind of economy. It is also the case that people have this strange idea that the biggest reason they are taxed is for the state to take their money and give it to someone else who doesn’t deserve it. All that amounts to is a fiction that reflects very little actual scrutiny of where tax money goes.
This kind of issue - about wealth distribution - also has not a thing to do with the EPA or the reason that it exists or the goals of the organization.
The “socialist” label is being over played by the right. But politics has evolved into a puppet show of the far right and far left demonizing each other. It has occurred to me that one of the greatest mistakes that we have made is to look to the NASDAQ and DOW as indicators of the well being of this country. Apparently those markets don’t give a good indication of how the country is doing, but only a few who have vast investments, individually or collectively. The mean, median and mode of family income appears to indicate we are collectively suffering while those few are doing quite well.
Back in the 80s I worked for a dealer who (tried) to put everyone in the shop on a team pay plan. This meant that all hours were pooled and divided by the number of mechanics. This also means that a hard worker had to give up part of his paycheck to other mechanics who were slackers or taking off one day a week “sick” so they could go fishing. My mother thought this policy was horrible and had no response when I asked, “well, what’s the difference between that and the government doing the same thing?”
We don’t have a far left. I think that’s why people can call slightly to the left of the middle-right “socialist”
You’re right about DOW, NASDAQ etc., although these days there are lots of people with money tied up there - retirements and college funds and stuff. Mostly in things like mutual funds rather than direct stock ownership but mutual funds are, of course, mostly collections of stocks. But the movement of those markets do mostly just tell us how well the wealthiest people are doing. That’s one reason why one can hear news about economic growth while one is still standing in line at the soup kitchen.