\\\Agree /////
A 3/4" residential water line can deliver 23 gallons per minute, nowhere near what a hydrant or pumper can deliver. Commercial properties with sprinkler systems have 4" or larger supply pipes.
Should a vehicle owner spend $10,000 on a sprinkler system or require the manufacture to correct the problem?
There are parking garages in Europe that do not allow electric vehicles to park because of fire risk and this started before the GM battery issue.
Electric vehicles may suit 20% of the population but the state of California is planning to ban the sale of fossil fueled vehicles in 13 years. I predict this will result in a Cuba type vehicle environment, repair and continue to use, modern vehicles can last 25 years plus.
The media has called this a ban on “gas-powered” vehicles which is misinformation. Does “gas-powered” mean gasoline powered? Diesel fuel is not “gas”. The sale of natural gas powered vehicles will not be allowed, our fleet of city busses are powered with natural gas. What about propane? Is that a liquid or a gas? Of course it is a fossil fuel, why can’t the media produce accurate information?
1 Like
My step father retired from the fire department, he was no more than a high school graduate however there is a lot of training required to be promoted to lieutenant or captain.
The local fire department doesn’t hold the same respect of years ago with arrests for drug use/dealing and domestic violence. Friday it rained for the first time in months, very slippery on our roads, a fire crew turned over a fire truck on the highway during a call. What kind of safe drive example is this?
IMHO They want the shock and drama to keep the ratings.
2 Likes
As far as water goes I can give you my own experience. Minimum acceptable is 12 gpm 20 psi. Had mine tested, 14 gpm at the meter 22 psi. Took 1 minute 35 seconds to fill up a 5 gallon bucket from the spigot, replaced 100 year old galvanized with cpvc and it took 35 seconds. Now can sprinkle side to side in the 53’ wide lot. Hydrant min in our city is 500 gpm for 2 1/4 spigot. Normally a car fire you can put out with 500 to 1,000 gallons of water," Austin Fire Department Division Chief Thayer Smith said, per The Independent, “but Tesla’s may take up to 30,000-40,000 gallons of water, maybe even more, to extinguish the battery pack once it starts burning and that was the case here.”
Average hydrant flow is about 1000 gpm for 2/14 inch in our city. I know because I used to do flow tests, average pressure 60 psi.
I dont think a standard sprinkler system could put out a tessla. Considering most modern faucets etc. have flow restrictors at 2 gpm or so, just fyi
Considering it’s GM that’s footing the bill since it’s a recall and not a TSB or voluntary repair…
The only cost us owners will have is the 2 day wait and the possible car rental if there aren’t any more vehicles for the dealerships to loan out to customers.
And you’re WRONG. Here in NH the vast majority of firemen are volunteers. They are trained just like the full time firemen. I know at least one fireman in NH who’s a college professor. Many are college educated. In fact there’s a college degree for it. You can get an associates or even a BS in Fire Science.
3 Likes
@InvisibleSnowman I’ve been observing the other discussions you’ve joined or started. I agreed it was premature to call you a troll at the time someone did so, because I try to give the benefit of the doubt to new members. I might have been wrong. You seem to enjoy an argument, but please avoid baiting people to derail an entire discussion.
4 Likes
I admit to talking about topics and facts that are highly emotional or controversial to some people. Especially safety, since driving is the leading cause of death for young people, and I believe many people deal with it by choosing to just not think about it. I’m actually not trying to start arguments. There are several users here who appear to be going out of their way to pick apart everything I write about to find something that goes against it. I wrote about something unconventional that they don’t like and now they’re here to pick apart what I say in every other unrelated topic too.
I never said everyone is bad, but I have watched someone die as first responders stood by and did nothing, and lacked the skills and/or motivation to do what was needed. If keeping the good name of some of these organizations is more important than saving lives then I just can’t go along with this okay?
Anyway, aren’t EVs getting unfair treatment concerning fires?
Think about those numbers. If those numbers are correct, then it’s less than 1 in 10,000 bolts that catch on fire. If 2 million dollars was paid out for every fire, everyone would be happy and it would cost only 26 million dollars. A drop in the bucket. Fixing 141,000 bolts at only $1000 each, which is a really conservative estimate for a battery replacement, would be 141 million dollars!
Can the few of you who trying to stir things up with me just let what I wrote about the Bolt fires go and not reference some irrelevant news article or make some insult about it?
Your bringing first responders into the discussion certainly qualifies as irrelevant. The fact that they may not have the tools to deal with a completely new type of fire does not justify your comments.
As for Bolts, you seem to be saying ‘let them burn, it’d be cheaper to pay off the folks whose houses were burnt to the ground (and killing some of them along the way), and would be better than paying to fix the cars.’
This is the same twisted logic Ford used in its Pinto fire debacle.
3 Likes
Sometimes vehicle safety is taken more seriously than just let it burn. 67 million airbags recalled, how much did that cost?
No they are not . Do you really think it is acceptable to not do something to avoid fires in peoples garages which most of them are attached to their homes ?
With your goofy screen name and your redictulous posts why don’t you find a Forum more receptive .
1 Like
Agree that is the best idea yet.
Per vehicle, it would have to be a whole lot less than a battery replacement! It was 67 million Takata airbags in just the US and the company paid out $1 billion. The Bolt issue doesn’t just affect the Bolt or GM, but GM is blaming the battery supplier LG would could possibly affect other future EVs.
I did make the mistake of saying 1 in 10,000 Bolts without considering future fires as the Bolts are still fairly new.
There is still no need to bash my fire sprinkler idea. What if GM pays for a fire sprinkler? Then you have it for other cars too. It’s all the plastics that burn in a car. The battery pack gets hot and ignites them. The water from the sprinkler just keeps the fire from spreading to anything else. A 1 in 5000 chance of a fire and a sprinkler to contain the fire to the garage if it happens? I would be happy with this solution and a cash settlement to replace what’s in the garage.
Why I don’t find the forum more receptive, or I should find a different forum that is more receptive? I agree about the screen name. If you want to open a topic called why InvisibleSnowman is a troll I would be perfectly fine with it. Rather than each of us mentioning something that is off topic and then going back and forth for a while responding to it, it could all be handled in an on topic thread, and then these discussions wouldn’t get messed up as badly? Actually I’m going to create the new topic it right now. You don’t even have to look bad or potentially get in trouble for creating it because I’m doing it! Here it is: https://community.cartalk.com/t/why-invisiblesnowman-is-a-troll-on-this-forum/179898
Yes there is, it’s nuts. Sorry, but it is. No company is going to custom-construct fire sprinklers in thousands of home. I bet it would be much more expensive than fixing the batteries.
And what would be the sales slogan for the Bolt? “Don’t worry if it burns, your house will be OK!”?
4 Likes
Lithium-Ion battery fires are incredibly difficult to extinguish and can burn for hours. If the building doesn’t catch fire you are still left with water damage.
Suppose the vehicle is parked outside and causes a California wildfire that burns 100 homes? The problem must be corrected or vehicles removed from service.
Maybe some customers would prefer this and / or a cash settlement and decide to park outside? I don’t think any of us know how bad the situation is going to be yet. Do you want $5000 and have us not fix the car? I think I would take it. I would use $2000 of it to have a handyman put in a single fire sprinkler in the garage. A 1 in 5000 chance of a fire is small. Figure .6 deaths per 100,000,000 miles traveled for a fatal car accident for a belted occupant. That’s a 1 in 1667 chance of me dying in this car in an accident over a projected 100,000 mile life of the vehicle. I’m 3 times more likely to die in a car accident in the car versus having it catch on fire and water damage everything in garage from the sprinkler. Insurance will cover the smoke damage in the house if GM doesn’t. It’s a small car too so the death rate is going to a bit higher than .6. Just putting things in perspective.
I think the name of the Bolt has already established a reputation that will never be fully undone. The reputation affects the rest of the EV market as well.
GM could just recycle the ad slogan used for the '55 Chevy: It’s the hot one.
1 Like
We had to provide water services for new houses, 1.5" water service is what was suggested to insure water flow to the fire sprinkler system, vs 1" norm.