GM gives customers employee pricing

General Discussion
21

I never said GM didn’t make a big mistake, did I (see my last post above)? And I guess it was your comment specifically that got my dander up, @Shadowfax. The reason I brought up Toyota is that I recall how a short while ago, someone (not you) actually wrote that they thought the Toyota recall for unintended acceleration was overblown and unintended acceleration probably didn’t occur at all. There are Toyota apologists all over the place. I pointed out that Toyota gets a pass all the time it seems and GM can’t buy a break from anyone but me. I am galled by different standards for similar wrongs.

Please also recall that I said in defending GM when the flap about the ignition started that it is very difficult during the investigation process to know when to own up and create a recall. I also specifically singled out Toyota for equivalent treatment. It was hard for them to know when the accelerator problem should result in a recall, especially since there were at least 2 sources for the problem.

22
There are Toyota apologists all over the place. I pointed out that Toyota gets a pass all the time it seems and GM can't buy a break from anyone but me.

I’ve never given Toyota a break. I think they screwed up with the acceleration problem.

I pointed out that Toyota gets a pass all the time it seems and GM can't buy a break from anyone but me.

It might be a perception problem…I’ve ALWAYS admitted that NO-ONE makes the perfect vehicle. But I’m still a firm believer that GM has FAR more problems then Toyota or Honda. And you end up defending GM more because there are more problems.

23

I defend them because I see a difference in treatment from many members here. And it seems that treatment is reserved for GM only. Chrysler needed loans just as GM did but they didn’t get beat up nearly as badly. New GM reacted to the internal news that they had a big problem with ignitions on a three models caused by a poor response as the company went out of business. Circumstances at lost on everyone. Now they want to get it right and all I hear is what bums they are. This affliction I have with fair treatment would probably cause me to defend Toyota if they were in a similar situation. Ohhh, wait… I already did that.

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Now they want to get it right and all I hear is what bums they are.

That’s part of the problem then jt…You’re perception of them getting it right - by offering a deal that ANYONE can get from EVERY OTHER manufacturer is NOT what I consider “Getting it right”. They (and you) pass it off as this great thing for their customers. And it’s NOT. It’s just a marketing ploy that most people without blinders on can see right through.

If they were offering BETTER incentives, or some other compensation…then I’d say yes they are “Getting it right”. But all their offering is fluff…and hoping to get more sales out of it.

25

at the risk of being flippant, I m sure poor, put upon, GM appreciates you protecting them from all the bullies on cartalk

26

As you said @jtsanders , it wasn’t me who was a Toyota apologist. I can’t really be held responsible for what other people think about the Toyota issue, so I don’t think it reasonable that my opinion on GM would get your dander up based on what others have said about another car company.

And so I stand by what I said most recently - When focusing on GM and its problems, it doesn’t matter how bad other car companies are (and they are. All 3 of the American brands have pulled similar crap, as has Toyota). GM’s actions should not be viewed in a better light just because other corporations may have been as scummy as they were.

GM does not deserve a break for intentionally risking people’s lives in order to save a buck.

27

“Mountainbike, you’ll never buy another Toyota, will you? They not only stole their hybrid technology, they sold millions of cars with defective acceleration systems, and may not have solved all the problems yet. They paid $1.4 billion to stop the criminal trial filed against them.”

Jt, this was you second post on this thread, your first reply post. Until you brought this statement up, the debate was on the recent GM policy that you had posted, and only on that. If you want to see who started ragging on a particular company as a whole, I suggest you go back and read the posts again.

Nobody here is an apologist for Toyota. We talk openly about Toyota’s missteps, including their biggie… the truck frame rot. And nobody here attacks GM anymore than any other company.

Every company stumbles. But the GM policy that was the subject of your posting is IMHO a scam piled on top of a stumble. GM is unique in my opinion because of the way they handle their mistakes. They use their already screwed customers to screw once again. They turn a safety disaster into a sales scam. I can think of no other car company that does that.

Regarding the Chrysler loan, I have never supported that, even when it happened.

Jt, you defend them not because they’re unfairly treated, you defend them because you feel compelled to because they took such a beating for the bailout (it was not a loan, like Chrysler, it was a bailout) and because you apparently like GMs. That’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. But you don’t strengthen your case by claiming that you defend them because they’re unfairly treated. Remember that it was you yourself that opened up this thread. You and nobody else. And it was you yourself that dragged the thread off subject. I think you need to accept responsibility where it fits.

By the way, I feel perfectly justified in making these statements because you yourself singled me out for response (see the quote above). And, in that same post, you yourself brought Toyota into the discussion. If you’re going to do these things, you need to accept the consequences.

TSM

28

I ve had the opportunity to buy old trucks, in good shape, with the gas tank in the cab. I could not talk myself into it. just too risky in my opinion
@wesw–I really didn’t give a second thought to the gas tank being in the cab at the time Today, I don’t think I would like the arrangement.
The Chevrolet and GMC trucks that had the gas tank under the truck, but outside the frame rails had a much safer location than in the truck cab. My brother had a GMC pickup with the gas tank outside the frame rails. I called him last night and he said he remembers receiving a letter from GM good for a rebate on a new Chevrolet or GMC because of the gas tank location. He was to trade in his truck. He declined, because even with the rebate, he couldn’t afford a new truck at the time. This wasn’t a recall.

29

I almost got my son an old ford truck for his first car(senior year). when I saw where the tank was I looked further and found an old el camino instead. it was perfect for him to carry his go carts four wheelers and such.

30

I’ve always thought the El Camino was a great idea. I think it still is.

31

GM, to me and since the mid 70’s, has been a master of smoke and mirrors and advertising gimmicks while producing dud after dud. Remember the Cadillac Cimmaron? A Cavalier with electric windows and leather seats priced thousands more. I used to drive a ‘75 Buick LeSabre 350-4 barrel that was $6600 new. A few years later GM that took that 18’ car, chopped it in two, threw a 4 cylinder in it, called it a Skyhawk and charged almost as much as the LeSabre. In 1984 I bought a Corvette off the showroom floor…$28.5k. That Fall I also purchased a 1985 Toyota 4WD…$8.8k. In the 12 years and 28k miles I owned it, the Corvette was never driven in the rain (though it was caught in it once), always garaged, stored winters…pampered! Well, the clear coat started to fade (or something) where it appeared the rear-end had been in an accident which had to be stripped and replaced (my cost); it went through 5 batteries (the computer apparently kept running even if the car was off?), a set of rear tires, a new driver’s side window bracket and motor (window fell into the door as I put it away for the winter) and the list went on. When I finally had had enough and decided to sell it, a white “something” was starting to appear on the red leather seats and wouldn’t come off. In the 75k miles I owned the Toyota, nothing had to be replaced, not even the tires that went with the truck when I sold it. By then I was fed up with the Corvette and sold it in 1996 to a collector of slightly-driven-cars, bought a Honda Civic and have been with Honda/Acura since. Time after time GM is forced to show their true colors after the fact and tries to say they’ve reinvented themselves and deserve another chance, but then, down the road, it appears they really only blew smoke again.

32

“but then, down the road, it appears they really only blew smoke again.”

I couldn’t agree more

33

Some of us (like me) use to be die-hard GM fans. I was a HUGE Chevrolet fan. I’d knock you on your *ss if you bad mouthed Chevy. I can’t tell you the number of arguments I had with my brother-in-law about Chevy vs Chrysler. At the time he was just starting to work as Chrysler. Then worked his way up to Plant Manager in Detroit. I still love the 60’s and early 70’s Chevy’s.

But I don’t have blinders on. When I bought my new Highlander…I looked at the new Nissan Pathfinder. If I had blinders on I would have just accepted it to be a great vehicle. After all I had owned two of them that turned out to be extremely reliable with a combined mileage of close to 1 million miles. Phenomenal reliable. But the Pathfinder today is NOT the Pathfinder of just 8 years ago.

GM today is NOT the GM of the 60’s. Some people are completely blind to that. And they’ll stick behind them no matter what.

34

We have 4 GM cars and they all work just fine. I’ve had better success with them than any other car company, except Honda.

35

I’m truly happy for you. There are many GM fans. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

36

a lot less GM fans now than there were 10 yrs ago tho. and, since mike is in new Hampshire, I feel safe saying “ford rules”. I do miss oldsmobile being around tho. even if they were not my father s olds’ anymore, they still reminded me of him.

37

Well, for me, I haven’t hit a bad BRAND yet. I get sick and tired of people discounting an entire brand because they got one bad apple.
I’ve had Dodge, AMC, Chrysler, Chevy, and Ford and even a Mexican Nissan.
Not one bad one in the bunch.

38

You can get good and bad vehicles in any maker, we currently have a chevy ford and saturn, but thinking the next car will be a used chrysler 300.

39

I have news for all you Toyota fans–Toyota won’t be in business much longer. I say this because anytime I buy a product I like, the company either goes out of business or drops the model I like. I used to drive AMC products and AMC sold out to Chrysler and then went under. I bought an Oldsmobile that I really liked and GM dropped the Oldsmobile division. I owned a Ford Aerostar and it was great. However, when I was ready to replace it, Ford dropped the Aerostar and I had to buy a Windstar. It was satisfactory, but Ford went out of the minivan business. I bought a Chevrolet Uplander. However, our son needed a better vehicle, so we sold it to him. When I went back to the Chevrolet dealer, I found that GM no longer makes a minivan. We now have a Toyota Sienna and a Toyota 4Runner and both serve are needs very well. This probably means that when I am ready for a new vehicle, Toyota will be gone.

40

Sounds like MY life…