$3.85? That’s not cheap for LA.
Don’t get me wrong, I never said stop all funding, just focus the funding to roads and bridges from the highway fund.
Grants for damage from floods is a totally different matter though. That would be funding from FEMA for disaster relief like in New Orleans or the crop disasters in Minnesota and South Dakota last year. Again the grants supplement local funding. Not saying any of this is undesirable or shouldn’t be done but if Minnesota had their $40 billion back, we wouldn’t have needed disaster funding.
@Bing
So Minn gets it’s 40 “what ever back” and pays no federal taxes., Guess you don’t mind speaking a foreign language and paying taxes to the Putin.
You first say non Fed roads pay for themselves. When I show you they don’t, you say " see you make my point" your only point is "there is no role " for the federal govt.
You are assuming since 2002 when the federal infrastructure protection plan was instituted after 911,that entitles for example, protection for Corporate owned airlines, power companies major train ways etc. which without, with the snap of a finger could all institute changes in their own infrastructure to make them and you and I safer. You just assume that there was no role for the Feds to protect non federal highways plane terminals airlines, trains…you assume Internet would grow out of thin air and was a child of private industry, NOT. Many major developements that spurred private enterprise started with federal monies, including your internet. Heck, your federal govt. Defeated nations in war, started democracies over seas to make friendly nations that would buy from our economy.
Your federal govt. is the prime protector of the entire worlds shipping lanes, air transportation and in the future, space travel. That’s why OUR federal govt. Spends more on national defense then the rest of the world combined…and you want Minnisota to pay no federal taxes… and not be helped with federal dollars so they could also take a place in the world. It’s federal monies that allow Minnisota ( and all states) to be part of the world wide economy. Oh, and infrastructure has to be changed in keeping the environment safe. Grants for removing asbestos and creating cleaner energy for power plants are a major source of revenue.
You took me to task, too, dag, and I know I’m not being contradictory.
I’ve said before that a fuel tax is the most logical way to fund road construction, and to encourage fuel conservation. I’ve even said, on this site, that I’d support a federal fuel tax IFF there were truly “iron-clad” anti-diversion measures in place.
That said, I just don’t trust our government (at all levels) any further than I can thow 'em.
We have no choice but to have some sort of federal government. I don’t really think I’d want 51 fully-autonomous, sovereign states where the USA is; I also wouldn’t want to get a visa every time I wanted to visit the Football Hall of Fame (120 miles away). That said, my attitude toward funding the Feds is similar to being forced to be business partners with a raging alcoholic: only supply the base amount of money necessary to get the job done–on a “shoestring basis”–because ANY cushion is sure to be (ahem) mis-allocated.
I live in PA, and they love to fund things on the lowest possible scope, local if possible. I see the downsides of that way of business, too: traffic lights on busy roads are set to favor the “local yokels” (because that’s who paid for the light); Blawnox, PA, has the last operable light (that I know of) without “4-way-red”, dating it probably 50+ years old. (You should hear it change, too: “Green” [BRRZ-CLUNK!] “yellow” [BRRZ-CLUNK!] “red.” Love those relays in action!)
@meanjoe75fan
My good friend, do you trust them to get you your social security check to you every month, or would you rather that done by a local stock broker. Because, if take the central govt. out of everything, that’s what you will have left. Then you can put your trust in the banks not to mess up enough when the stock market crashes…due to LACK of federal regulation. Even with the last crash, everyone got their SS checks on time. They did not all get their stock dividends.
Wow. The $40 billion is what Minnesota paid to the feds and didn’t get back in any services, grants or anything else. We paid in more like $80 billion. The 40 billion is not the total paid but the extra we paid and got no benefit for. No point discussing further though. Like I said umpteen times, I’m not for no federal government but for trimming the wings a little of the excess.
Come on @Bing, get with the program my man. The plan was to turn you into a flaming liberal like me by next week. You are not cooperating…and I am running out of BS.
My good friend, do you trust them to get you your social security check to you every month, or would you rather that done by a local stock broker.WOW.
Without knowing it, dag, you stumbled upon possibly THE hottest of my “hot button” issues.
The short version: I would, by a factor of about 10,000:1, prefer that ALL of my SS contributions be invested in something like a mid-cap global mutual fund. If you go backwards and do the math, you’ll see that equity investing TRASHES the return you’d expect out of paying into SS, and collecting out the other end. The only reason I do not, personally, favor abolishing it…is that, people being people, some folks out there would choose NOT to fund their dotage. I’m not sufficiently callous to say “Sorry, Grandma, you failed to save; you deserve to starve!” (Although if everybody knew the score going in, that would be a logical position to take.)
But the longer (and more interesting) version: My primary idealistic trait is this: the workers ought to own the means of production. That’s it: I’m a whole-hearted believer in that stuff; Marx is not to the left of me in the thought that it is morally right that INDIVIDUAL workers, cumulatively, ought to own the factory.
Where I differ from the traditional Marxist is that I feel it an absurdity that a “collective government” could EVER serve as a substitute for individual worker ownership.
Given that communism is a macabre joke…and trade unionism is currently “circling the drain,” re-appropriating SS funds to the workers…and having them invested in equity ownership…is THE best thing that could possibly done for working America. That mere fact that the jack-asses (pun intended) who presume to represent the same…could “whiff” on an opportunity of this magnitude…is cause for me to write them off entirely.
Now, sorry for the detour, folks, but I WAS answering a question directly presented to me. I am now happy to go back to talking about stuff that moves…and the relevant questions surrounding funding of same.
. I've even said, on this site, that I'd support a federal fuel tax IFF there were truly "iron-clad" anti-diversion measures in place.
But that’s the problem…it’ll NEVER happen.
I’ll just pass on some info that I learned yesterday. A few days ago I remarked on the possibility of regular gas prices falling below that of E85. I spoke with a friend of mine at a local Speedway and he said that E85 prices would always remain 5 cents cheaper than regular. I was a little skeptical and talked to the managers of a couple different gas retailers. They said the same thing. How about it…anyone else seen this trend?
@meanjoe75fan
I have time and know math. I have a masters in it…show me YOUR math…10,000 to 1 hmmm.
It is all about infrastructure…your own personal infrastruture. Just like the gas taxes you pay, it helps keep the basics so you can live in old age. You have really fuzzy math. Mine is for real.
10000 to 1 better ?
Try to retire on your investments alone after 8 years of recession. It would be like owning a car you pay for on time with no roads ! SS is guaranteed…just like we want our basic infrastruture to be. Your stocks are pie in the sky for most Americans.
They work together. These are real numbers. Show me yours. I have all three which everyone needs with SS for the basic security, stocks and pension plan from my job to maintain a standard of living and pay my gas taxes. You need a new account ! Dr Seuss is steering you in the wrong direction. This is sound advice from one friend to another !
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html
The Feds meddle too much,plain and simple as a Libertarian(my version)I would like to see states have more freedom and say in how they use money,distributing money for pork is a no-no and people shouldnt be paid to live in an area.When the Feds dole out a little money contigent on amount of dangerous guardrail,eliminating passing zones,lowering speed limits,etc-I think they have went “a bridge too far” if they are going to tell everybody what to do,eliminate the state and local gov’ts,may not save money,but maybe it would make the bureaucracy easier to comprehend,yes we need SS because a lot of Folks would spend the extra money on Beer,cigs,dogfood and lottery tickets rather then put it aside for old age.
I’m still a believer in user fees and tolls,rather then mandatory taxes(sometimes you can dodge a toll,hard to dodge a tax)I hope the half of my earnings that the various govt’s and agencys end up with are not squandered on Pork.Do you realize how hard it is to live independently?Uncle sugar and official boys wont leave you alone.it comes a time when you have to trust people.
Mark my words,these lower fuel prices will end up with higher fuel taxes,when Saudi Arabia lowers the boom next time watch out-we may not need any new roads and bypasses.
Got to quit now,Wife is watching Hallmark channel,Merry Christmas(Clover never sleeps)-Kevin
@kevin
As you can see, social security and the stock market and our ability to maintain an infrastructure…(ability to pay) are all driven by the same economic forces. They are not independent. As the stock market has improved and funds loosened over the past several years, there becomes a fight as to where they will be spent. Using much of this tax monies for infrastructure seems to be important but we here can’t even agree on what it is, let alone who should do it or how much or where. One thing is for sure, without social security, you would be tripping over the homeless in numbers that rivaled that of the Great Depression. Tell me how much the average minimum and lower wage actually puts into the stock market ? The middle class as a group is getting a 70 billion dollar surplus with lower energy prices. Everyone is now fighting over getting a piece of the action…your choice, will it be the banks and Wall Street, or your invest ment into improving your infrastructure. Guranteed, the banks and Wall Street do nothing for direct investment in the roads they take to the airport for vacations in Cayman.
I’d like to take a driving vacation in a Cayman.
Gasoline will drop below $2 early next year…But that will not make people buy more gas…Every oil well has it’s own production cost…As crude nears $50/barrel, many of the newer wells will be operating at a loss, they will never recover capital it took to drill them…Tar sands same deal. It costs more to produce it than they can sell it for. The Saudi’s can produce oil for $5/barrel and make money at that price…Nobody else can…When the high-cost producers shutdown production and cancel drilling plans, the glut of oil on the market will dry up and an new boom or bust cycle will begin…The oil industry has ALWAYS worked this way, from the very beginning…One boom and bust cycle after another…
As oil moved towards $100/barrel an industry expert made this statement: “When oil hits $100, you will be AMAZED at how much oil they will find at that price.” You don’t hear much talk about “Peak Oil” anymore…
Pleaaaase shut me up. Pleaaaaase don’t let me say anymore, pleaaase. I can’t help myself.
Nuttin better than ownership in American business. The way most of us do it is with stock accumulated little by little over a long period of time. We believe in American business. When I worked production at the can plant, they matched whatever you put in to buy company stock. 90% of the guys owned company stock and some quite a little and were even sent to the annual meetings in Philadelphia. Not the Marx way but the American way. I think its good for the workers and good for the company. You have to look at the long haul. Lost 50% in 07 but hung on. Made 30% last year and 10% this year. Maybe lose 20% next year but over the long haul, not getting crazy you can do 10-15%. Nothing wrong with that.
I would recommend the book “Iron Curtain” which is a historical documentary of Eastern Europe after the war and the Socialist/Communist take-over. It really is an eye opener but 700 pages long fully documented. The scary part is that there are so many parallels to what is going on today. Centralized education, police force, anti-business statements, pitting one group against another, and on and on which makes me a little more concerned with out direction. Jefferson was adamant against a large federal government because he thought it would create an elite against the populace. Hamilton couldn’t stand the idea of everyone being equal and thought there should be an elite. Guess who’s winning now?
Back to cars. I seem to just drive the same regardless. Just think about it more or less depending on where the price is.
@Caddyman Thanks for the simple and logical explanation of how the oil business works. Too bad we cannot explain it that way to the likes of Feinstein and other government types. When I talk to academics they never believe it is that simple.
I spend a good deal of my time assisting producers establishing production costs and how to reduce them where possible.
There is no conspiracy, other than OPEC members wanting to drive the high cost producers out of business. Walmart is doing the same to Sears! Free enterprise has always worked that way.
And so it goes. Then the redeeming part will be when someone around the corner drives Walmart out. Just hope its not a Chinese company.
@Bing
Math facts…
It does not fluxuate. You try retiring during a resession when your stocks are at your lowest. Stocks can not replAce SS but supliment it. The history of those low to middle income retirees without SS is not pretty.
Then you are in favor of completly privatizing SS, and eliminating Medicare and the ACA so all we old people can try to buy health insurance with the paultry returns on stocks that low incomes don’t even have from private insurance companies that can limit our coverage and eliminate e us from coverage all together with the predicting condition of old age. No old timer can afford to retire and still buy private insurance…if they could even get it with stock investments. Many of my best friends who aren’t retired yet feel the same way and say the same things…when they do, they like their SS and Medicare.