You said URBAN area…The whole line prior to your statement was about the US. Even 400 years ago Urban areas in the US had much better air quality then today. Yes the Urban cities in the US were extremely small compared to Europe…but they were Urban areas.
I Would Have To Say That If Air Quality Was An Important Concern To Somebody, That Choosing To Live Or Work In An Urban Area Is Probably Not The Best Choice.
I made the decision to leave 4 decades ago when the air there actually was polluted.
CSA
I Would Have To Say That If Air Quality Was An Important Concern To Somebody, That Choosing To Live Or Work In An Urban Area Is Probably Not The Best Choice.
That’s much easier for some people…but not for everyone…in fact the VAST majority of people that’s not an option. People live where the jobs are.
And why would AIR quality be the primary concern anyways? That’s one area we’re doing pretty good at.
I’d say my concerns, going forward would be: 1. loss of wilderness/habitat to sprawl (by a country mile), water quality… and only THEN air quality. (I’d happily breathe the air in any city in the USA, but there’s PLENTY of rivers I won’t swim in!)
And this anal-retentive fixation on parts-per-billion lead, etc, levels is a fool’s errand: concentrations have dropped enough alreday to be “virtually zero.” There’s a fine line between concern for public health, and creating a bogeyman.
“And this anal-retentive fixation on parts-per-billion lead, etc, levels is a fool’s errand: concentrations have dropped enough alreday to be “virtually zero.” There’s a fine line between concern for public health, and creating a bogeyman.”
What happens is that the Fed keeps tweaking the numbers. Lead levels that were once considered acceptable, no longer are acceptable. Many homes in Flint have lead levels that wer the norm when I was growing up and are now criminal.
The same thing is happening with transportation. Cars that met standards of a few years ago, no longer will. The bar keeps getting moved higher and higher and makes any trace of pollution or contaminants look out of control and dangerous. There is no satisfying some folks, ever.
CSA
And why would AIR quality be the primary concern anyways?
Never said it wasn’t…just that air quality is directly related to cars. Water quality is a major concern…we lost that battle decades ago.
I’m not especially concerned about air quality in the USA. I am concerned about air and water quality in China and India where it is appalling. Add to that their desire to continue polluting water and air unfettered by pollution controls for several more decades, saying that they just want to mirror North America and Europe as they rolled through their industrialization. The newcomers aren’t interested in their roles as international citizens as much as they are in making money.
Hello, could you please nudge this back toward cars, please? Thanks.
As these mandates continue to get tweaked, the technology to meet them drives the costs of our cars higher and higher. We’re at a point now where a great many people drive old beaters because the cost of new cars is so high. That scenario will continue to get worse.
When I bought my first new car in 1972, average annual household income was just over $10,000 , and my car (a compact) was $2300. It was about 23% of average household income.
Average household income in 2014 was about $50,000, and the average price of a new economy car was about $23,000. In short, the price of a new car has risen from 23% of average household income to about 50% of average household income. We’re approaching the point where tighter mandates are making more people squeeze more years out of old cars, producing more unwanted emissions than they would if new cars were still 23% of average household income.
We have reached the point of diminishing returns.
@mountainbike Your figures are right, but Americans are now buying “more car” due to lower interest rates and the leasing option.
If we take family income at $50,000 and compare that to a bare bones economy car (still available), you can still get a new car for under $15,000 which would be 30% of gross income.
A local Chrysler dealer here has for a number of years offered basic Dodge minivans, with air, at about $20,000. He sells a lot of those because it is the most car for the money and soccer moms and family dads both love them.
He probably makes more money on Jeeps but has fewer buyers.
I’m skeptical of your figures @“the same mountainbike” and would like a little more information. Cars that used to be compacts like the Camry, Accord, and their predecessors as compacts in the 1970s and 1980s was.acceptable, but they are considered full size cars now. Are they included in the price survey you list as compact models? I guess you can pay more than $23,000 for a Corolla, Civic, or Cruze but it seems to me that the average price for those models is less than $20,000. Also, does the figure include compact luxury models? There are a lot of them now, and there probably were none in 1972.
Since this is about polllution, cars, and so on I’ve fired off a mail to my son to ask about the present as compared to the past in regards to pollutants.
He holds 3 degrees in the climate field has a hard drive for a brain. He soaks up and remembers even the most minor details.
He can be asked what kind of season the San Antonio Spurs had 9 years ago, who were the starting five, and can likely rattle it off without errors.
One thing meanjoe75fan is dead on correct about is the annihilation of trees by the thousands to stick up yet another gated neighborhood or strip mall. Regarding that hokum carbon footprint BS, my son told me a few years back that someone can offset their footprint by doing one thing.
That is to plant one/single/lone/solitary tree. Nothing more.
Nope; just a normal average size tree. I suppose if one wanted to leave a lasting legacy then a new redwood could be planted.
Here you go, Jt.
I’m afraid I lost my receipt from 1972. You’ll have to trust me on the price of the car.
In 1971 I Bought A Brand New 1971 Clementine Orange Volkswagen Super Beetle With Am/FM Stereo And A Sunroof. I Also Remember The Price Of The Vehicle, $2350.
CSA
Ah, sweet memories… 
“Ah, sweet memories… ”
I also recall (I was working at a Volkswagen dealer at the time.) that all of these 71 Super Beetles (New design first - McPhearson strut front suspension instead of twin beam torsion bar suspension as on regular Beetle.) developed a bad shimmy in the front-end. VW scrambled for a fix and ended up replacing all 71 super beetle ball joints (it only had 2), including mine. :neutral:
CSA
That is to plant one/single/lone/solitary tree. Nothing more.
Your sons calculations are of by a factor of 100.
Here…do the calculation yourself…
I’m all for planting trees. I own 3 acres of land and probably have well over 100 trees. But even that probably doesn’t offset our families carbon footprint.
The internet is taking so much business from the malls, no new ones are under construction.