I’m not “chickening out”. I’m tired of the vultures waiting to attack every single thing I post, and I’m not wasting my substantial amount of time required to post the voluminous information provided by this figure. Nor do I want to jeopardize my ability to speak to a man who you’re lucky if you can get a hold of him, and he has limited time, by letting the abusers on this site immediately start callling him en masse. I could care less about your “benefit of the doubt just disappeared.” So, if it’s disappeared, what should you care any further? Why bother to answer?
Or maybe it’s their fragile egos that their head explodes?
I tried to reach out to you, asking for a truce, complimented some of your remarks, but you snubbed me. That states volumes, and your posts are meaningless to me now.
I don’t want his name, just some piece of information that would show it’s not just been BS.
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There’s no need for the guy’s phone number and email address, nor did anybody ask for that.
Do you seriously think any of us would try to contact that guy directly?
I know you and I have disagreed
Yet consider this . . .
Have I EVER tried to send you a private message or contact you directly in some other way?
I’ll answer it for you
To keep this car-related . . . I’m not sure, but those could be turkey vultures sitting on top of an automobile
I don’t have any opinions about the merits of the discussion and I didn’t think any side was especially less civil than the other. But I’m with @texases by now.
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Ok, a piece I’ll provide. There are no official standards, even by the API, for what constitutes an oil to be labeled synthetic. The majority of oil mfrs. do not use the ingredients nor the techniques to produce a truly synthetic oil. While it is true that synthetics are built from taking petroleum derivatives and breaking them down to use to rebuild them into synthetic molecules, many are not doing this properly, and are using mineral oil as their major component.
An oil fits into a Group number, from 1-5. Most ‘synthetics’ are not even Group III, which is questionably acceptable. Group IV & V oils are the only Groups that are TRUE synthetics. This is per my industry source, but look at bobistheoilguy, as apparently he has done enough research to unearth some understanding of synthetic construction, and he provides much of what is correct. People on this site don’t even speak of any of this, when this is integral to any discussion of Synthetic oil.
Group III and group IV synthetic oil has been mentioned in the past in other engine oil threads. If an oil meets a manufacturers specification and performs as it should there is no reason for a vehicle owner to be concerned about synthetic oil group types.
Honda for example uses a synthetic blend, their oil life monitor was engineered based on the use of the engine oil they selected.
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And Dexos, the specification GM uses for their engines is also a synthetic blend.
But all of that is irrelevant. The talk about group base stock and refining methods and conventional vs. synthetic is irrelevant and just clouds the issue. It makes no difference where an oil comes from or how it is refined. If someone is able to make an oil that meets VW spec 502.00 or GM Dexos or what have you, then that is an appropriate oil for your engine regardless of whether it’s conventional or synthetic–as long as you use the specified weight. Use the correct oil, keep it full, change it on schedule, and that’s all you need to do.
This entire discussion has been the most convoluted I think I’ve ever seen, but we’re just about to make it to 300 posts. Someone should write a book…
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When they are made out of mineral oil? If you delved into this, you’d find the experts have issue with some of what you say… There are NO standards - and that is a major issue, and the very point made by some top-level papers on this subject.
No reason to be concerned about Group types? Sorry, but respectfully disagree entirely. Research indicates otherwise. Group I & Group II are becoming almost obsolete, as they do not keep up with latest engine designs and their requirements. You need to go to lubesngreases.com, click on Magazines, and then Lubes 'n Greases magazine, and you’ll be able to read different articles. They are written by different individuals, so there is not total agreement, and I’m going by those that my research has shown me to be the most knowledgeable and know the most about the subject through their own research, or knowing the top researchers to pick from, whose studies and findings they most agree with.
If you have the knowledge, you will not want to use oils that do not contain Polyalphaolefins (PAO) and Esters. Mobil will not reveal the percentage of PAO, Esters, and other compounds they use, claiming this is “proprietary information.” But I squeezed out enough from them to realize their different level of synthetics (about 3 or 4 different grades) definitely differ probably substantially in formulation. By the way, Toyota’s 0W-20 & 5W-20 are Mobil oils, but they are near the bottom of the quality level, being close to Mobil’s cheapest synthetic, which is below regular Mobil 1, with Advanced Fuel Economy Mobil 1 being the same as Mobil 1 w/some slight addition to supposedly increase gas mileage. Until I have the time, which I don’t have in the near future, to read probably 100 articles and papers, I am depending on Mobil 1 as one of the safest bets. I’m sure there are a few oils out there that are very advanced Group 5, and now there is a Group 6, though I don’t believe it is commercially available; I have not done the research to find out who the mfrs. are and the names of the oils.
Pennzoil’s newer “made totally out of gas” (they are RDS - Royal Dutch Shell) was analyzed and found to contain mineral oil. You don’t get mineral oil in an oil "made totally out of gas. Perhaps, and only perhaps, there are synthetics that don’t meet the ingredient and formulation techniques that a company like Mobiil uses, but they would be preferable to using plain old fossil oil. However, long term, until I am convinced otherwise, I don’t believe these synthetics are totally innocuous, and have no break-down, sludge, or other problems of their own.
So, be careful which company and which product you trust. That is, per my industry contact, the present state of synthetics.
As @Nevada_545 said, the important standard is the oil spec from the manufacturer (Dexos, VW spec, BMW spec, API spec, etc.) combined with the correct viscosity grade. I would be amazed if an on-spec, on-grade oil, changed as recommended, would cause problems, regardless of the source of its hydrocarbons.
In every area of specialization there are groups of people who make more out of minor differences than is warranted. I went through this when I was a stereo hobbyist (folks said one had to have the ‘special’ speaker wire, the ‘right’ tape, etc.), and have seen it in several other areas. It doesn’t mean they’re right.
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I miss my Kenwood KR-4070.
OK, now I’m just adding filler to see this thread go to 300 posts.
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Does any one here know what the longest thread was?
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There is no reason for a vehicle owner to re-engineer the lubricant for the engine. The vehicle manufacturer has chosen the motor oil that performs as desired and the maintenance schedule is based on the use of this oil.
You seem to be looking for a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist. Forget the rumors that you heard about the Toyota technician’s beliefs, those comments might have been made 10 years ago.
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In an effort to keep this thread relevant, and to try and get to 300 posts…
I own a 2014 Mazda 6 that specs 0w-20 synthetic and 7,500 mile OCI’s (normal driving). I have been changing the oil every 7,500 miles (the dealer uses Castrol Syntec 0w-20 and a Mazda filter) and I am about to turn 110,000 miles. The engine is clean and burns no oil. Spark plugs changed at 100,000 miles looked clean and normal with no trace of oily deposits. Mazda specs a 7,500 mile OCI for normal driving and 5,000 miles for severe service and I would not dream of changing it sooner.
I am sure THIS will add another 100 posts to this thread: The transmission is sealed and Mazda has expressly instructed dealers NOT to open or service the transmission unless it is being replaced. My service tech owns the same vehicle I do and he confided that he is following Mazda’s instructions so, despite the next 100 messages that tell me to flush/drain and fill my fluid every 30,000 (or 60,000 or 100,000) miles, I will stick with Mazda’s instructions and leave my A/T alone.
It’s a new day boys and girls. Engines and transmissions are now incredible feats of engineering and fluids are many times more advanced. This thread is an interesting intellectual exercise and an amazing waste of time. All of y’all are gonna keep doing what you’re doing so “live and let live”. Do your thing and I will do mine.
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy Holidays to all!!!
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That’s a great idea…you don’t want to see the color of that fluid!
;-]
@insightful - I know what color it is. The factory fluid is blue. I imagine it is now grayish blue. I’m not worried at all.
with @bloody_knuckles invitation to keep thread to +100 more posts going and @insightful support of that idea, let me add my 2 cents 
2013 Mazda3, Skyattiv-G 2.0 ith automatic “lifetime fluid” transmission, after reading deliberations at Mazda forums, I’ve replaced fluid at 70K, and I’m glad I’ve replaced it.
it was not extremely dirty, but definitely nowhere around their stock “blue” color - it was brownish yellow
upon replacement, it shifts crisper
I’ve read the definition of “lifetime” on Mazda forums and I tend to agree to it: it is “for as long as the longest extended warranty Mazda would give you, then you are on your own”
BTW, it is NOT sealed: it has a small plastic dip-stick
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How much did that cost you? At least a couple of hundred dollars I imagine! Mazda has actually told their dealers NOT to service the SkyActiv transmissions unless they are being replaced. This is not a simple case of “not required”. I know my Mazda guys really well and they are straight up with me. They told me that they have had no fluid related issues with any SkyActiv transmissions and they do NOT replace fluid at their dealership. I’m glad it feels like your transmission shifts more crisply, but my wallet feels fuller. I guess we will see who laughs last in another couple of years!
it costed me $35 for 2 gallon jugs to do double drain&fill cycled, DIY arrangements.
I used Valvoline replacement (compatible), not OEM, used it in other cars before and was always happy with its performance.
I plan keeping this car for my kid, so I need it to last well after 100K miles
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Hey, Nevada, I respect your experience and opinions, but don’t in the case of there being no concerns on using any oil that “meets a mfrs. specification and performs as it should…” because of all I’ve read & discussed with those I mentioned.
Did you even look at any articles on the lubesngreases site? I kind of assume you haven’t based on your response not mentioning them…
It sounds like you’re convinced in your beliefs, so no point in going back & forth on this, unless there is something you’d like to provide of relevance.
There is too much vagueness and lack of clarity in the oils being manufactured. And this stems, as I’ve said, from the fact that there are no mandated standards on synthetics, & that’s exactly what those most involved in research of oils have to say.
I’ve written the 300th post!