I asked a simple question about after market add-ons for economy and got called a dreamer. I dont mean to be rude but some of responses i got were a bit much. You guys have helped me many times and saved me considerable headaches and money. Its just not a good day to call me a dreamer and tell me theres ne way my rig can be on the road 20years from now. Not that i ever said it would be but im absolutely sure it could be if i wanted it to.
Now im gonna take a break n fire up the ol 56 Chevy…
@badbearing
I really like your enthusiasm for your 24 year old 4Runner with 200 k miles on it. I get that you “want” to keep it 20 more years and 200k more miles. Now, let’s leave asside that I don’t think it will last that long nor give you the mileage of newer trucks ( yes35 mpg is quite realistic in the next 10 to 15 years).
Realistically, will your body and temperament hold up in this crate. A 35 to 45 year old truck today, is a real back breaker and tough to live with. With technology increasing exponentially, I don’t doubt that in the next ten years, your body will be screaming to get you into something better. I had 80’s and 90’s Toyotas with the 22 R motor as well as the 6… By today’s standards, it, the 4 cylinder, was woefully under powered and inefficient and I looked forward to getting rid of them. It was only a reasonal performer in the 2wd i had. In 4 wd, it was poor…
With the access to the Internet, unlike years ago, you can be sure as the touch of a key pad, that any secrets out there to make your truck more efficient for a worthwhile cost, would be easily found. Best of luck !
My guess is this is Country mouse and city mouse
@ BB,love your truck, reality will bite one day,when you get older you will probaly appreciate the advice of people like Dagosa,as far as fuel economy the narrowest highest profile tires (slightly overinflated from specs) the thinnest quality lubricants in the drivetrain and engine, a add on electric fan to replace the clutch fan if not so equipped,keeping speed around 45 mph and using good non ethanol gas these steps may get you 1-2 mpg",Love what you marry"-Kevin
@km I dont recall any advice from dag. I do recall my rig being called junk and that im a dreamer. It wont …cant be running in 20 years? You must have missed the 56 chevy.
I understand high profile tires and gas mileage. Its a toy for playing off road. I already have the thinnest synthetic fluids from front to back.
Clutch fan works fine. I see no reason to change that.
No ethanol fuel here.
Again. I was born in the morning but not this morning
Maybe im wrong but being told im a dreamer and my rig will not make it another 20yrs seems like disrespect. Maybe i took it wrong. Maybe not
When i get older? I was skidding logs from the back of a horse when i was 12. Probably b4 u were born
@badbearing If it’s just a toy for playing around off-road, then why concern yourself with fuel economy? The whole purpose of having a vehicle for that’s a toy is to throw practicality out the window. I certainly don’t care that my 74 TR6 gets 18 MPG, and honestly If I had a 427 Cobra that got 9 MPG I wouldn’t care either, because that’s what those respective cars are supposed to get, and those aren’t cars that people typically drive around every day, they are hobbies, that might do 500-1000 miles a year.
@BB, Dagosa usually gives good advice and a electric fan will usually net an extra mpg or two on the Highway,the way you post I doubt very seriously if you were skidding logs with horses “B4” I was born.If you already know everything and dont want advice,dont ask.-Kevin P.S. (I dont badmouth anybodys vehicle,I would love to see more Heirloom cars,you have to consider that in the US,a lot of factors contribute to the demise and economy of our vehicles{I would love to have a 53 Plymouth)
Modern cars aren’t more fuel efficient than the older cars because of some big secret discovery, it’s more the cumulative gain of hundreds of small things that by themselves amount to little. A little improvement from a lock up torque converter, a little from and extra overdrive gear in the transmission, a little from variable cam timing, a little from computer controlled fuel and ignition timing, a little from dual element thermostats that control inlet coolant temperature as well as outlet temperature, bodies designed for minimum air drag, etc. all add up.
There really is no miracle device you can bolt on to make the vehicle significantly more fuel efficient. What does work is free, learning to let your vehicle coast towards red lights and keeping your cruising speeds on the low side of the traffic speed envelope. If you go 90 mph whenever you can get away with it and accelerate towards each and every red light, you will get bad gas mileage even if you drive a Prius.
Bill Gates is a dreamer. As was Steve Jobs. If you think about it, being called a dreamer is a compliment!
I have no doubt your rig will make 20 years. If my '89 Toyota pickup hadn’t been crashed at 338,000 miles (I guess it was about 4-5 years ago), It’d still be on the road.
Re: the electric fuel pump idea, that plus an electric coolant pump and electric oil pump would no doubt add some tiny increment of mileage, but your payback would be decades long. Hydraulic power steering having been pretty much eliminated from modern designs for the tiny gain in mileage, I have no doubt that all pumps will soon be electric in all new cars.
@badbearing
It is great to hear you oil the body of your 4Runner as we do here. There is no doubt in my mind that you can get the body of this vehicle to last another 20 years. I just have a doubt, assuming you are as old as I with all the aches and pains, that your body will live up to it ( an old 4Runnet). 20 years from now, I expect to be driven, not drive, an electric vehicle with a programmed destination feature. One that I can take naps in while I drive and feel fresh for vists with the great grandchildren and get 100 MPGe. 20 more years of that 4 Runner seating upholstery and failed cushioning would leave me wanting. Gas prices in twenty more years will be even greater compared to today as today’s was compared to twenty years ago. I feel you will tire of the inefficiency as I am now with my 04 4Runner. , ;=( I sure hope you’re taking this in good fun…the way it was intended.
One day at a time my friend. I’m not even planning on the next few years as far as cars are concerned. They will advance as fast as smart phones.
Btw, just to entice anyone to sign up for Obamacare, I hear their offering credits for a new off road vehicle of your choice…interested ?
As far as cost-effective means of increasing MPG on a vehicle, look mostly at aero. Some proven methods:
Cooling openings are big parachutes to the air. Manufactuters size these for the “worst case scenario” (towing a trailer uphill in Death valley in the summer). Block off as much as you can without overheating/running the rad fan constantly.
You’re required to run mirrors, but not required to have them outside the vehicle. Delete them and run “fish eyes” inside the glass .
Wheels and wheel wells are very dirty aerodynamically. Aero hubs, wheel fairings make sizable gains.
The bottom of the car is very dirty, too. Bellypan.
Boattail the aft fuselage.
All this stuff should net 20% Hwy MPG increase easy. Once you get here, then start looking at engine efficiency. (I.e. underdrive pulleys and “do I really need power steering?,” etc.)
A lot of the aero stuff csn be fabbed with “found” materials (coroplast campaign signs the day after the election?), making payback especislly quick.
You're required to run mirrors, but not required to have them outside the vehicle. Delete them and run "fish eyes" inside the glass .
Sorry that’s NOT true. At least in the states I’ve lived in.
All this stuff should net 20% Hwy MPG increase easy
No way…No how. Maybe 1-2% increase at best. 20% would be a SIGNIFICANT improvement.
@meanjoe75fan, regarding #1 I posted this:
and got mixed responses.
I’m starting the 5th winter with the lower grill blocked. Nothing has blown up, the engine definitely warms up a little faster and the heater works better. It’s helpful with a small all-aluminum engine. I don’t think putting the panel behind the grill (out of sight) hurts the aerodynamics because the air velocity at the grill fins is relatively low.
@MikeInNH: Google “Aerocivic” or “Basjoos” sometime to see the potential for aero gains. There’s s LOT of low-hanging fruit to be had.
I improved a Contour’s Equivalent Flat Plate Area by ~20% just with grill blocks, hub caps, and a rear wheel skirt. Your insistance to the contrary (with zero hands on experience) makes you look ill-informed.
P.S. Sorry to heat you live somewhere where the laws are so draconian that an unobstructed view to the rear of the vehicle is “insufficient” to avoid a ticket. Perhaps sometime forward-thinking laws will be passed in your area, and/or you’ll move to a place with better laws.
Joe, the Department Of Transportation (DOT) contains very specific regulations for the size, field of view, and location of rear view mirrors, including a field of view requirement. States that require mandatory periodic safety inspections generally will not pass a vehicle that does not meet the DOT mirror requirements. State that don’t require inspections still generally enforce these regulations via the ability of the police to cite drivers with vehicles that have been modified to violate these regulations. Thus, the mirrors become mandatory, the requirements enforced by the states.
I’m betting that the drive to improve mileage will soon allow rearview bullet cameras that meet specific view requirements in lieu of outside mirrors, but from everything I’ve read they don’t yet.
It should be noted that EU has its own requirements for rearview mirrors. Automotive designers selling worldwide have to either meet both of mount different mirrors to vehicles for each market destination.
It ain’t draconian to require drivers to be able to see me coming in the other lane before changing lanes. It’s common sense.
I find the possibility of better aerodynamics increasing highway mpg by 20% entirely plausible. I rode a Suzuki DR650 motorcycle a few years ago and I was able to go from 53-54 mpg to 60 mpg on my commute to work just by making it a habit to ride in a racer’s tuck instead of sitting straight up. That’s over 10% improvement right there.
If you want to design a car that has low drag, take a long look at the SmartCar and do just the opposite.
I improved a Contour's Equivalent Flat Plate Area by ~20% just with grill blocks, hub caps, and a rear wheel skirt. Your insistance to the contrary (with zero hands on experience) makes you look ill-informed.
Sorry…don’t believe for one minute. Car manufacturers are BARELY meeting Cafe’ numbers. And they spend MILLIONS of dollars every year to meet these numbers. Now with just a simple simple solution you can improve gas mileage by 20%…Please notify the car manufactures…All those engineers have been looking for such a device for years.
I find the possibility of better aerodynamics increasing highway mpg by 20% entirely plausible.
No one is saying that aerodynamics isn’t important for mpg. But car manufactures are spending MILLIONS in designing cars to be as aerodynamic as possible and keep the vehicle somewhat stylish and functional. Ever notice how many vehicles (especially small to mid-size vehicles) are very very similar looking.
It’s entirely possible to increase the gas mileage by 20% of a not so aerodynamic vehicle. Could you show me that car? 50 years go…very few were very aerodynamic. Now…very few (with the exception of work vehicles) are aerodynamic.
I agree with Mike on this. On a motorcycle, a reduction in frontal area by tucking can make a significant difference, but small adjustments on a car cannot. On a motorcycle, a windscreen can make a huge difference also by diverting air smoothly rather than turbulently.“Frontal area”, which determines the size of the hole that a vehicle has to make in the air, is a major factor in aerodynamics, and it cannot be changed that dramatically with bolt-ons. The other major factor, turbulence, is pretty well optimized by manufacturers to the extent possible without compromising utility or safety.
20% improvement in a modern vehicle with bolt-ons isn’t to be had.
Like I said, google “Aerocivic” and report back.
Aero gains are easy because manufacturers know they cannot sell a car that has to be partially dissasembled whenever the temperatures crack 70 to avoid overheating. Buyers want, and pay for, “set-n-forget.” If YOU are willing to accept the limitations, you can capture a lot of easy gains that are purposely passed by.
The law [PA 45 $$ 4536] where I live requires “unobstructed rearward visibility,” and ONE or more rearward mirror(s). No law explicitly requires a side mirror, exterior to the side window, and that which is not explicitly made illegal is thus legal. Laws that not only set a standard for WHAT must be accomplished, but also micro-manage HOW to accomplish it, are draconian. 'Nuff said.
The “it can’t be done or it’d be done already” is the same BS mentality that Galileo, Columbus had to deal with, that held back vaccination, the germ theory of disease, and a thousand other things.
When I look around here, I see a lot a “flat-earthers.”