I would not drive it on the road unless we had a snowstorm and the road was covered.
Is there a way to clean the carbs without taking them off? I did put some seafoam in the tank. A half bottle. Has not done anything to improve it.
This spark tester, does it give a reading or just show spark? I have one tester that you put between plug and wire and it shows spark if there is spark. Hard to see during daylight.
Yeah just shows the spark.
Here is the latest. Monday I took it out and drove for about 20 miles. Very sluggish just under 50 was the max speed. Wednesday, we got some fresh snow Tuesday, it went much better. Max speed about 80 not as near as sluggish. Drove for a good 10 miles. Until belt went out. And it just didn’t brake it blew up. Pieces everywhere. Got all the string pieces out of the main clutch, the one on the motor. Most of them on the drive clutch pulley.
According to the book, it says to push in on the pulley and turn to open it up. It does not open up at all. Could I be doing something wrong. Not sure if I ever changed a belt on a sled before. If I did it was back in the 90’s on a Kawasaki Invader. Or is the pulley what was the problem all the while and it is locked up or something? Could that clutch have gone out and caused the belt to snap?
One of the major Ski Doo shops around here told me it could be the secondary clutch going bad.
All good reccommendations above…do not ignore them. The fuel system is the most sensitive one you have on that sled. Having said that… make sure your tank is clean and clear with NO water in it…easy to remedy… Check your fuel lines etc… Basically go over the fuel system. You may need to crack open the carb bowls and clean them out…including the jets.
Next is your ignition system… Run the sled till you know it will start screwing up… Open up the engine cover…AT NIGHT…The darker the better…and look for any fireworks shows in the ignition system. You may have a cracked coil that works fine cold…n leaks voltage when warm…same for wires…or plug boots.
Back to the fuel system… It may be as simple as an Air or Mixture screw adjustment… THis is something people rarely think about and or do…WHY? I have no idea because carb adjustment is always on my mind. Find out which you have…Air or Fuel screws…if the screw is closer to the Airbox…its an Air screw…if its closest to the engine or intake boot…its a fuel screw… The adjustment is opposite what you think for an Air screw… Think of an air screw as a hole in a straw… the more you plug up the hole in the straw…the more fuel you can pull… A Fuel screw is just like the Water tap… Unscrewing it gives more fuel and visa versa.
IN FACT…DO THIS Carb adjustment FIRST… Be sure Air filter is not clogged also…which will cause it to BOG heavily… If they even use an air cleaner in the snow…I doubt they do…might just be a screen. Since its hard to have dusty conditions with snow on the ground…yknow ? If she is BOOing at you …you most likely need more Fuel… I see this ALL the time…
You can also read the plugs to see how she is running, rich or lean…its written in hieroglyphics on the plugs, over a few decades Ive become a Spark Plug Whisperer…and you can too. haha
After carb adjustment attempt…then check everything else… Its more than worth a shot. HINT… Before you mess with any carb screw… Take a measurement of where you are now…carefully count the turns of the adjustment screw IN untill seated and write it down…this is your benchmark. THen you can adjust away and see if it clears up… Sorry I listed this out of order…but you just may pay more attention to how important this adjustment actually IS with me listing it out of order. Make no mistake…try this first… please, then move on if no change…if no change…it becomes more of a fuel supply problem in my opinion… then mover to other systems like ignition and plugs… Two strokes are very sensitive to all of its few systems.
Id say I repair easily 85-90% of two stroke “problems” with a mix screw adjustment. The factory settings NO LONGER apply when a motor breaks in during its lifetime… In fact when this sled was new the screws were adjusted…probably havent been touched since then. They need adjustment during the engines life…do not underestimate how accurate and important that fact is. Like I mentioned…I have repaired many many many two stroke “problems” with a carb adjustment. Most often…as they age…they need More fuel on the mixture screw, sometimes Less fuel…who knows…either way…they need an adjustment…I promise you they do. Make sure all carbs are running the same adjust setting…This is also important, they should all love the same setting. So like I said…try a carb adjustment FIRST…but be sure to know the original screw setting as your baseline…then adjust either direction till you hear results. If this makes no change or difference…then your fuel system and ignition is more suspect.
But this could easily be a carb adjustment issue… I promise, if I were there…I could listen to it and tell you precisely what it is. But from here all we can do is throw ideas at you. Dont underestimate the carb adjustment…
Sorry for writing you a Novel…but I type awful fast…and the guys here will attest I probably am the most Verbose responder… Just trying to help.
Blackbird
Blackbird please read my latest response to this matter right above your comment this Saturday. You did not mention anything with the clutch. The belt blew to pieces. The book says to push on the clutch and turn clockwise. The clutch will not push in a fraction of a milometer. Below is a copy of what I wrote yesterday. How do you know a drive pulley clutch is bad?
Here is the latest. Monday I took it out and drove for about 20 miles. Very sluggish just under 50 was the max speed. Wednesday, we got some fresh snow Tuesday, it went much better. Max speed about 80 not as near as sluggish. Drove for a good 10 miles. Until belt went out. And it just didn’t brake it blew up. Pieces everywhere. Got all the string pieces out of the main clutch, the one on the motor. Most of them on the drive clutch pulley.
According to the book, it says to push in on the pulley and turn to open it up. It does not open up at all. Could I be doing something wrong. Not sure if I ever changed a belt on a sled before. If I did it was back in the 90’s on a Kawasaki Invader. Or is the pulley what was the problem all the while and it is locked up or something? Could that clutch have gone out and caused the belt to snap?
One of the major Ski Doo shops around here told me it could be the secondary clutch going bad.
Whoa ! Oops… I often and stupidly tend to not read others responses… Im thick sometimes.
Are you relating the Bogging sensation possibly with an out of whack clutch?
Yes it is certainly possible that the clutch can fool you into thinking the engine is not making power properly…if the clutch is not working correctly it can put undue stress on the engine making it bog and work harder…because it IS working harder from clutch problems.
The clutch you have on your sled is a CV type of transmission… Constant Velocity. The two wheels of the clutch act as a torque convertor/transmission if you will. While at low Rpm one adjustable wheel of the clutch gets small…while the other…usually on the track…is on its largest setting…meaning providing the belt with a large sprocket. So the engine will have a small sprocket…and the track a large sprocket…thus being in low gear (Higher numerically).
When you increase RPM… Both wheels usually adjust…from the scenario above…toward a larger diameter on the engine…and a smaller diameter on the track…and it varies Constantly back n forth.
If you shredded a belt… I would closely inspect the clutch and its ability to properly adjust under centrifugical forces. Both adjustable wheels need to be able to expand and contract in UNISON… IF One of the torque convertor wheels does not adjust…the belt will be shredded…because one wheel is trying to adjust its diameter one way or the other…and the other wheel is staying stuck in position.
If you increase RPM…the engine “sprocket” will try to make its center diameter larger…and the track wheel will try to make its center diameter smaller. Think about it…if your engine sprocket is growing in size…and your other wheel is stuck…the engine will be under tremendous load and feel boggy… It will also rip apart that belt
You need to disassemble one of those wheels and find out why it is unable to adjust properly… Look it up on the net…but it is basically a centrifugical force adjustable sprocket you are dealing with…both wheels need to be able to transform from their stationary persona…to their Mid and High Rpm persona…and back again…Ad Infinitum.
Let me know if this helps… If you shredded a belt…this is your issue
If you can somehow run the track with the sled up in the air…Watch your clutch wheels… They wont work without a belt… but the ability of both clutch wheels to adjust must exist PRIOR to installing a new belt…otherwise you will smoke your new rubber band… They arent cheap. The wheel you mentioned turning to adjust…if it is stuck…I think you found the problem… Take that clutch wheel apart and see why it is jammed up… Clean and grease its internals and the shaft… You will be good as new soon.
To answer your question of could this have been the issue all along? ABSOLUTELY… The forces created by one wheel not adjusting…are tremendous and increase exponentially as rpm increases…in fact you have no hope of running at all until this is repaired. I would start with which ever wheel you said does not turn in when you tried to adjust it. Remove disassemble clean and grease and or otherwise remedy the issue… could be simple rust… Sleds are often run HARD and put away WET… which isnt nice to any of the equipment. Could just be rust.
Blackbird
Blackbird, my Stihl chain saw has given a variety of typical problems, And, over time I learned how to fix them. Fouled plugs. Clogged air filter. Clogged spark arrestor screen. Bad gas. and more.
But, a year ago, it dogged like you described. I went through the entire repertory with no luck. One of the adjustments is spelled out in the manual. Sit it here and leave it alone.
But, finally, I decided to see what happened when I adjusted it differently. Suddenly it had all its original power and rpm. So, I do understand what you are saying!
Thanks Blackbird. I will look into what you said.
The clutch on the engine I was told was put on new recently. The problem clutch seem to be the drive clutch pulley, the one that moves the track. If it was the clutch, would it have run better, faster, with the few inches of fresh snow that we had? From a difference of 2 days it went 35 mph faster and the only change was we had a snow storm.
Whichever pulley was messed with most recently is probably your culprit. Trust me…one of those adjusting pulleys of the torque convertor setup is not operating properly. That is what you have on the sled…a torque convertor…operated by centrifugical force.
It must be partially working otherwise you really would not go anywhere…My guess? The engine pulley is operating in its High speed mode and cannot return to its low speed mode.
Look at the pulleys… at rest the pulley on the engine should show the belt riding as close to the engine shaft as possible…which would be a small diameter size…
The larger pulley on the track should be at its biggest internal circumference… the belt should be near the outer edge of the pulley…
I bet your engine pulley is stuck in the high rpm mode and unable to return to the low rpm mode.
Thats my guess from my computer…easy as could be to figure out onsite. On the engine…the belt should be nestled into that pulley closest to the shaft diameter…the opposite on the large pulley…the belt should be near the very edge. When in operation…the belt 'walks" these pulleys as they expand and contract…forcing the belt to go deeper into the pulley…or out toward the edge… Pretty simple.
The new snow enabled your sled to slide easier on the new snow…which explains why it went along better… You are essentially starting out in like 3rd gear of a 5 sp transmission with one of your pulleys stuck…thats why it bogs and seems not powerful…at least if the engine is runnign properly… But the engine just cant pull such a high numerical gearing that exists with a stuck pulley that is supposed to adjust. If you snapped a belt…your issue lies here. Good luck and keep us posted
Blackbird
All of my theories are out the window if your engine is not running properly… Again…hard to help you at my computer… But if I were there…I could tell you precisely what it was just by listening to it and sometimes…SMELLING it. From carburetor adjustments…to clogged exhaust ports…to cracked crank cases…Ive been messing with 2 and 4 Strokes my entire life… I can ID almost any running condition issue when onsite. Its been learned over decades of playing with this stuff.
Its very hard to diagnose issues like this from here, because you only give what info you think is relevant…when you may be paying attention to the wrong things. LOL…its always fun. We are only as accurate as the problem description tho… Oh well.
Wish you lived next door…we would have her humming in no time be it Belt, Carbs or ignition or exhaust…Ive suffered through it all…and WON
Blackbird
Yes the engine does seem to be running near perfect. At least at a idle it sounds great. Starts fairly easy. Once you get it running for a min., you can shut of and start with one pull or half a pull. Sounds great also. I have like almost no experience with snowmobiles so don’t really know what I am doing. The book says to change the belt you have to push on the drive pulley and turn clockwise. But in my case there is no belt there, as it snapped, perhaps it automatically pushed itself in since the belt is gone? And the belt is now ready to be installed as is? Will check it out tomorrow.
They changed the main pulley on the engine, perhaps they never set it the 2 pulleys correct in the first place.
You need to disassemble those pulleys and make sure they are able to adjust instead of looking and poking at them. The problem lies there.
Blackbird
When I start it and rev it up without a belt I can see the drive pulley clutch, one of the engine, seems to be working good. It expands and retracts, or vise versa. I think the problem, if any, is on the driven pulley.
Blackbird I thought I was the the only one who looked for fireworks or fireflies. Before computers in vehicles & when you still could see the engine solved many wire problmes this way
Youre damned right Renegade… Fireworks are the first thing I look for sometimes when ignition wires or cap are suspect… The next thing is the Shock n See method…Haha…Its always “Electrifying” I can tell you that !
Blackbird
Sounds like you are close to a solution there Knock Sensor… Would Not hurt anyone to lubricate those mechanisms that adjust on that Torque Convertor setup… Its good that the engine pulley is working…but some well placed grease will ensure that it continues. Not too much…or in the wrong places mind you but… Yes…lubrication.
The engine pulley will expand when at rest or low rpm…and constrict on higher rpms…
The track should be the exact opposite… it will constrict at low rpm…and expand on higher rpms…yup…that should be about right. Take apart the track pulley…and or look for the exploded diagram…maybe someone else was messing with it…and forgot a part or installed a washer or spacer wrong and locked the pulley in one position?
Go online and look at how the pulley looks in its exploded diagram… I use those diagrams all the time to either learn how to put something together…or see what it might be missing…or how it comes apart…basically ALL of the above. Find an exploded diagram of what you have there… and you will be on the other side of this problem and out racing around.
Blackbird
Changed the belt today. Rode it for about 10 miles. Seemed to be running fine. Ran it with back end up in the air. Clutches seem to be working just as they are supposed to. Have not driven a snowmobile in years, so not sure exactly how it should. But front engine clutch comes in when revved up and back driven clutch goes out. Seemed to be even faster today. Got it up to 80 some, but ran out of space and had to slow down. Need like a mile stretch. No bogging at all.
I have a clymer book for it. It shows the clutch parts. What do I grease on the pulley? Where? Could it have been that the snow was just to hard before, the reason for the bogging down? With the fresh soft stuff it goes much better. Could it have been a bad belt? Used to the older sleds that could go through anything. Maybe this one just needs better snow conditions to run it.
I do believe the carbs and everything electrical is good. It does start a bit hard when cold, but found a way to start it easier. I stick something in the throttle and when I pull over and it fires, it starts right up. Otherwise it would fire and by time I hit the throttle it would die. Once warm starts perfect. Runs perfect. It did sit for a couple years, maybe it had a fuel problem but cleaned itself out with running, new gas and seafoam. Also when I changed the belt I noticed one of the carbs air cleaner tube was lose and put it on right.
I guess the best thing to do is to keep driving it. If I snap another belt, then I will for sure know the clutch or clutches have something going on.
NO NO…no grease ON the pulley… I was suggesting that you remove said pulleys…and grease the mechanism of it…if possible… These pulleys are made different but with the same centrifugical force principle… way back in the day it was done with springs n weights…but usually there was some surface INTERNAL to the pulley adjusting mechanism that would have enjoyed some lubrication. Now I dunno the exact style you have now on your sled…maybe instead of springs…rubber does the job. But I am fairly sure…if the pulleys narrow and widen as part of their normal operation…those pulley sides must move…and move on a central axis…it is this axis that I keep mentioning Lubricating. Who knows I may be talking out my ear…but if they move…I bet I would find something to lube. Haha…
I like a well oiled machine…and am fairly well known for carrying a handheld long nozzle Pump Oil can around with me…lubing things like I am the Tin Man from the Wizard of OZ or something. Sometimes what is needed is oil…sometimes grease, I know when to use what. I usually make up my own brew of lube to suit the situation too… A little 145W gear oil…a little tranny fluid…a dash of Full Synthetic…WHATEVER… I make it up as I go…Im knowledgeable about where NOT to lubricate as well…bec you can get into a little trouble sometimes lubing the wrong things.
So to again answer your question… What I am pushing you to lubricate…or try to lube…is the internal mechanisms of these adjustable pulleys. ALSO…MAKE SURE that the track pulley and its shaft are perfectly in position …as held by the bearings… Make sure no bearing is blown out on the driven portion…thus allowing out of kilter operation… Know what I mean? You dont want a blown bearing anywhere on that setup. So lube intelligently…make sure bearings are solid and nothing is out of alignment. But for Pete Sakes…Take the moving parts apart and lube or grease them…they are moving components and need to be able to easily slide in and out or move…they rely on you to lube them so they can adjust. I am TRYING to prevent you from snapping a $100 + belt that your entire machine needs to operate… You dont want a back country belt snap…I promise you dont. So far as I can see…you havent fixed anything yet or ID’d the issue. Personally I wouldnt ride until I found the culprit…but thats me.
It seems like you are extremely hesitant to take the thing apart and examine the pulleys… If it seems difficult or you are wary of this, just look it up prior… If done prudently, you shouldn’t get into trouble. I would ride the sled locally with the engine cover off or try to have the Belt in view while I rode it…I would watch the belt in its operation while riding…if at all possible… Prior to buttoning it up for good and hitting the back country with your girlfriend on the back.
At the moment…I don’t see that you solved any problem…and your new belt may be headed for Heaven because of it. If you don’t mind that…then by all means…keep sledding. But if you don’t want to be stranded in the cold, want to be eaten by Polar Bears, or have your Butt Frost Bitten by Old Man Winter, PLEASE look into what I have been saying. Its entirely up to you, I think Ive offered as much as I can on the subject. Engine tuning is an entirely new book…but you seem to be running fine aside from possibly needing a slight Idle screw adjustment…which is simple…just turn it in 1/4-1/2 turn to raise idle so it starts easier when hot.
Good luck brother…stay SAFE…and carry an EXTRA BELT and the TOOLS needed to swap it on your sled at all times ! People die from less out there…trust me.
Blackbird
Yes belts are expensive. Had an extra came with sled. Cheapest on ebay is 40 bucks. I am going to order that. For now I do not drive it off of the farm land. No more than a mile from home. When belt broke was a half mile away. Got tractor and pulled it home.
Looks like the clutch pulley, at least the back one, driven pulley, is not to hard to take apart. I will see about doing that. Thanks for the help.
It COULD HAVE BEEN…an old and worn out belt that snapped on you. If the belts width was reduced substantially from the beginning…it would have nestled down into the big pulley quite a way…which would essentially be like starting out in 3rd gear. I dunno…wasnt there to see the old belt. But you now have more info and that is half the battle. Good luck and dont freeze to death.
Blackbird