Flashing yellow arrows

Maintenance/Repairs
81

lizardsgarden, haven’t you ever seen one of those intersections with a constantly flashing yellow light? Usually they have a flashing red light for cross traffic and a flashing yellow light for the other two directions. In this case, the flashing yellow light has a different meaning, but you know it means “watch out for cross traffic, who should yield but might not.”

When you keep this use of a yellow flashing light in mind, a flashing yellow arrow should mean you have the right of way. Troubleshooter, what happens when someone sees a flashing yellow light and assumes other cars have a flashing red light or a flashing red arrow? Can the families of the dead victims sue you for promoting this idea?

It seems to me we are fixing the problem of “irresponsible engineering” with more “irresponsible engineering.”

82

So a flashing solid yellow light means you have the right of way, but you should watch out for cross traffic just in case. So won’t people think a flashing yellow light also means they have the right of way and assume other directions are seeing a flashing red arrow or a flashing red light?

hwertz, I understand the problem being addressed, but in my view we can solve this problem without creating new problems. The flashing yellow creates a new problem based on those who don’t initially understand its meaning.

I am not hating on Troubleshooter, I just respectfully disagree with this idea. Troubleshooter has done a great job of explaining the problem and how this idea will address it. I just think there are more effective (albeit more costly) ways to fix this issue without creating new hazards.

83

Given the nature of all those other drivers I don’t think that there is an option that will be universally understood.
Ideally a left turn on red like a right turn on red would be permitted, but people would probably not look at all 3 possible directions of traffic. There has been an interest in the US to roundabouts, we had one proposed for a major intersection in our city. It met with protest due to people not understanding or familiar with them. As my Aussie friends say we love them because whe never have to stop moving. Would a roundabout be acceptable to you the general public?
http://www.camrose.com/engineer/roundabouts/graphics/roundabout.gif

84

I don’t see any hate. Just confusion.

So a flashing solid yellow light means you have the right of way, but you should watch out for cross traffic just in case. So won’t people think a flashing yellow light also means they have the right of way and assume other directions are seeing a flashing red arrow or a flashing red light?

Not quite right.

A flashing yellow arrow pointing left always had the meaning that the driver had to yield to opposing traffic, just as the flashing circular yellow means that left turning traffic has to yield to opposing traffic. Only a green arrow has a meaning of a protected turn.

The only previous use of the flashing yellow arrow was when the entire signal was flashing at night. At that time, the yellow arrow in an all arrow face was allowed to be flashed, solely because the face contained no circular yellow. But that did NOT convey any increased right of way over that of the flashing circular yellow. It meant that the left turn had to yield to opposing traffic.

“Flashing solid”??? That’s a contradiction (“solid” often means “not flashing”). Do you mean “flashing circular”?

There are two shapes: circular and arrow.

There are two indication modes: steady, and flashing.

As of 2008, any signal that causes yellow trap is against federal standards. All such signals must be converted to flashing yellow arrows (or a Dallas display), reprogrammed, signed as a hazard, or removed. Here are the things we will have to give up if a locality does not adopt the flashing yellow arrow:

  • Green-wave progression (often not possible without lagging turn arrows).

  • Increased intersection capacity.

  • The ability for the signal to skip unused approaches.

  • The ability to handle traffic safely where unusual intersection geometry exists.

Say goodbye to them now, if your locality doesn’t adopt flashing yellow arrows. The old methods are no longer allowed by the federal standards.

There is quite an effort to expand knowledge of this. Google “flashing yellow arrows”, and look at all of the brochures. Newspapers and TV stations are spreading the word. It is already in some of the driver license manuals.

And as I said, in the studies they did, most drivers figured it out without any help.

One engineer sent out a fleet of cars the day the flashing yellow arrows were turned on. The drivers were told to make as many left turns at the new signals as they could, to show others how to do it. They stopped after two hours, because all of the cars they saw were already doing it right.

The new problem exists only where people have false ideas about yellow arrows. Yellow arrows never conveyed a meaning of a protected turn.

85

I like roundabouts too. My city already has six, and two more are proposed.

But they can’t handle the volumes of traffic handled by signals at larger intersections.

Roundabouts with two lane approaches have their own problems. Many people don’t understand that changing lanes and passing are prohibited within the circular roadway.

The diagram is very poorly marked. And the blue car in the diagram is making a left movement from the wrong lane.

And planting something tall in the central island is doing the WRONG THING. Drivers need to be able to see all of the rest of the circulating traffic.

Here are better diagrams:

http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/pubs/ltr_roundabout.pdf

Another way to handle left turns is the jughandle turn:

The problem is getting people who want to turn left into the right lane.

86

Thanks I really do like your link much better!
http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/pubs/ltr_roundabout.pdf

87

the way i read the law here in ohio was yellow means clear the intersection,and red means do not enter intersection…this way,if your tires are in the intersection before the light turns red,you haven’t broken the law…the big white lines mark the intersection…if your waiting to turn left,and your tires are past -or in the intersection,you’r not breaking the law…if you cross the white line when it’s red,you’r breaking the law…
–yea,there are still some of those "revenue enhancement"kinda lights,but they are all SUPOSED to be three secounds,at least-by ohio law anyway…for faster speed zones,it’s increased…i got caught in one of those “traps”-ended up in a mayor’s court to fight it,and showed up a hour early,just to check out this intersection closer–my stopwatch in my watch kept reading 2.25 seconds…in a 50 mph zone…i also saw the other drivers having a lot of trouble there too…either squealing to a stop-usually in the intersection,or flooring it to clear it…all the mayor was interested in was the money,and not the fact their light was both illegal but dangerous…it takes all kinds to make a world!?!i guess!

88

Your interpretation is what gets you caught in the yellow trap:

  1. Your signal is green, and you have your front end in the intersection. Opposing traffic is steadily flowing.

  2. Already you have broken one law. You must not enter the intersection until you can leave it immediately.

  3. But there you are, in the intersection, and your light turns yellow.

  4. Another provision of the law in most states is that you must be out of the intersection by the time the light turns red.

  5. Surprise! Opposing traffic still has a green light.

  6. If you expected them to stop when your light turned yellow, and tried to make the turn, CRASH! Game over.

  7. Suppose that you yielded to the oncoming traffic, but were still in the intersection, and are sitting there facing a red light, halfway into the intersection.

  8. Of course, the car behind you pulled up, so you can’t back up.

  9. Now you are illegally blocking the intersection.

  10. SNAP! The red light camera says “gotcha!”

Now let’s try it with the flashing yellow arrows:

  1. Your signal has a flashing yellow arrow, and the signal for the straight-ahead movement is green. You have your front end safely behind the stop line. Opposing traffic is steadily flowing.

  2. You must not enter the intersection until you can leave it immediately. You obeyed this

  3. The circular green light turns yellow. But the flashing yellow arrow is still flashing. You may still make your turn through gaps in opposing traffic, even though the straight-ahead signals turn red.

  4. Another provision of the law in most states is that you must be out of the intersection by the time the light turns red.

  5. Surprise! Opposing traffic still has a green light. But you can still turn through gaps, because the arrow is still flashing.

  6. You didn’t expect opposing traffic to stop, because you still have a flashing yellow arrow.

  7. You can make your turn through a gap, or when the signal changes to steady yellow arrow (when it moves up in the signal face) if traffic allows. The signal turns to steady yellow arrow when the opposing traffic gets a circular yellow, so there is no trap.

89

Is that really the problem? From where I sit, engineers don’t “need” to do that. They have increased flow capacity by sacrificing safety. A good engineer would find other ways to increase capacity that don’t put people in danger.

This is an example of why laymen should never be allowed to have anything to do with traffic control (and that goes double for layman politicians).

Traffic control should always be in the hands of trained professionals, not citizen committees or election winners. The alternative is getting people killed.

90

Here is a Federal Highway Administration memo on this:

http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/4_320.htm

It says that it is very unlikely that any driver who is properly paying attention will see a steady yellow arrow as the first signal indication visible and will also be in a location where he must immediately make a decision. Either he will see another signal indication before the steady yellow arrow, or he will be far enough from the intersection to have time to stop.

91

I just realized that those of you out west don’t know what a doghouse signal is. I attached a picture of one (see below).

The signals out west place the sections in a vertical row, with the circular indications on top, and the arrows underneath.

Texas and Florida place all of the lens sections horizontally, in the following order (left to right)

Circular Red, Circular yellow, Left yellow arrow, Left green arrow, Circular green

All three variations, plus the three-section all circular face, can be the source of yellow trap, since they contain circular greens intended for left turning vehicles.

This is a doghouse signal:

92

We can now add Idaho, Montana, Connecticut, New Jersey, Georgia, and Vermont to the list. Kentucky and New York are experimenting. Louisiana is using the Dallas display instead.

Sadly, some states are among the missing. Some of them will not come into the 21st century until certain ensconced legislators die or retire. Their 1935 brains still want such anachronisms as prohibiting passing on the right, reserving the left lane for passing, using jurisdiction boundaries instead of engineering to set speed limits, believing that speed enforcement prevents all accidents, and believing that election to office makes them traffic experts. Modern traffic engineering studies have disproved all of these beliefs. But these people still cling to power.

The leader of the Indiana legislature refuses to allow red arrows on traffic signals, even though the national MUTCD is about to prohibit the use of the circular red on exclusive left turn signals.

It’s time to remove politicians from traffic control.

93

Many states are now installing Flashing Yellow Arrows. Here is the list I have so far:

Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
Nevada
North Carolina
Oregon
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Washington
Wyoming

That’s half of the states!

When the 2009 Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices is approved, many other states will follow. But some states with 1935 brains at the helm will have to wait for a new legislature to be elected before this will happen.

Most of these states have leaders who fear the introduction of the red arrow. They think that senior citizens will not stop for them. But their fears are groundless, because Florida has now had red arrows for 20 years, with no troubles.

94

When you keep this use of a yellow flashing light in mind, a flashing yellow arrow should mean you have the right of way. Troubleshooter, what happens when someone sees a flashing yellow light and assumes other cars have a flashing red light or a flashing red arrow? Can the families of the dead victims sue you for promoting this idea?

Flashing yellow has always had the meaning that left turn must wait for pedestrians and for gaps in oncoming traffic, and that right turns must wait for pedestrians. This is true whether it is a flashing circular yellow or a flashing yellow arrow.

95

Government can’t do the job right either, as long as politics are more important than results.

And if government takes too much money out of the economy, the economy fails, and then government gets even less money. So there is a trade-off on how much government gets. Government must be careful not to shoot itself in the foot by being too greedy for funds.

Let’s stop talking about government greed, because it’s off topic. We should be talking about government setting up the traffic system so it is safe. This has to be done by trained engineers, not layman politicians. Too many politicians think that election to office gives them an automatic degree in traffic engineering.

96

I just found out more information on this.

A flashing red arrow must be terminated by a yellow arrow before changing to steady red arrow or circular red.

The steady yellow arrow always indicates a REDUCTION in right-of-way.

The following changes must have a steady yellow arrow interposed between the indications:

steady green arrow to steady circular green
steady green arrow to flashing yellow arrow
steady green arrow to flashing red arrow
steady green arrow to steady red arrow
steady green arrow to steady circular red
flashing yellow arrow to flashing red arrow
flashing yellow arrow to steady red arrow
flashing yellow arrow to steady circular red
flashing red arrow to steady red arrow
flashing red arrow to steady circular red

A yellow change interval is not displayed when right of way increases:

Steady circular red or red arrow to steady green arrow
Steady circular red or red arrow to flashing yellow arrow
Steady circular red or red arrow to flashing red arrow
Flashing red arrow to steady green arrow
Flashing red arrow to flashing yellow arrow
Flashing yellow arrow to steady green arrow
Steady circular green to steady green arrow

A steady circular yellow must be displayed for the following reductions of right-of-way:

Steady circular green to steady circular red
Steady circular green to flashing circular red
Flashing circular yellow to steady circular red
Flashing circular yellow to flashing circular red