Well Whitey there are magnetic and paramagnetic metals,some magnets contain aluminum and when subjected to an alternating current or field ,Al can become magnetic(actually Magneto is my hero)
Anyway what I was referring to,was people thinking they are invulnerable when they strap a vehicle on,when the laws of physics rears its ugly head,reality bites(Is it just me,or do some others like the first Batman better? forget about Superman and the Hulk-credibility an only be streched so far)-Kevin
You guys are talking about aluminum as if it were some newfangled material in structural and for body panel applications. It isn’t. WWII was fought with aluminum aircraft. The engineering questions are long-since solved. Have been for generations. The only question left is whether or not the pickup truck buyers will accept it.
@MB, that’s not the only question. The most important question IMHO is whether this aluminum alloy is strong and resilient enough to be effective as a body of work truck.
@Whitey, the NY Times article says half of the aluminum will be 6000 series tempered to T4 condition. i’m guessing it will be 6061 T4, since 6061 is a common alloy already used in aircraft and auto applications and is well suited to the type of forming needed for truck body panels. This article lists mechanical properties for 6061 T4:
I believe 6061 T4 will be quite adequate in that application as long as it’s thick enough, and given the risk Ford is taking I don’t expect them to skimp on thickness.
The other half of the aluminum will be 5000 series, presumably in the less-stressed areas.
6061 aluminum has proven itself to be strong and tough enough for truck beds, IMO. I agree with TSM that the main obstacle for Ford will be overcoming initial skepticism from potential buyers.
PS…this Wikipedia stub says that 6111 aluminum is commonly used in auto body panels, so maybe that’s what they’ll use (vs 6061).
And here’s another reference that lists common applications of 5000 and 6000 series aluminum. It also references the use of 6111 alloy in body panels.
http://www.aluminum.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Auto_Truck&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=25703
Here are the mechanical properties of 6111 aluminum. Converting from MPa to psi I get the following:
yield strength = 22,000 psi
Ultimate = 41,000 psi
This is for the T4 condition
idpsun.engin.umd.umich.edu:8080/isearch/Isearch-1.42/bin/AluminumAlloy-6111
Whitey, I should point out that aluminum has been common for a long time in commercial vehicles, including slant beds, dump beds, tankers, “box” trucks, tool boxes, racks, etc. etc. It already has long proved itself as adequate for work trucks. The design problems have all been solved already. The only type of truck in which it isn’t common already is pickup trucks.
Welding aluminum is more difficult and expensive. I see Ford, like many aluminum boats, uses cement and rivets to join panels. Given how long an aluminum boat can last that’s made this way along with the beating they take, it seems a reasonable way for Ford to work with aluminum body panels.
Our bombers did pretty good too.
Yeah, aluminum is more difficult and expensive to work with. It “work hardens” easier, requires higher melt temps, has a small plastic zone, and burns through easily. Stampin’ and welding steel is definitely easier and cheaper. But as manufacturers struggle to meet ever more stringent CAFE and emissions mandates, perhaps Ford is smart in implementing the technology in their pickup trucks now. Time will tell. Steel might begin slowly disappearing in the mass produced vehicles in lieu of lighter weight materials. Interestingly, big rigs long ago switched to fiberglass for many body components such as the hood/fenders, and aluminum for fuel tanks and many other parts and structural components. Big rig manufacturers do it for the operating cost savings, a big plus in the purchasing decision. Perhaps cars will do it for the fuel savings just to meet the fed requirements.
Machine welding reduces variability significantly. That should improve yield once they have the power/time parameters set.
Id think factory welding is a non-event. Robots weld THIN wall 6061 for bicycles all the time. I’d worry more about bending/tearing something out in the field…not just anyone can make it right.
It’s more than just the welding. It’s pretty easy to stamp fenders etc. out of steel, but aluminum doesn’t form as readily. Bottom line, aluminum will raise the cost. Not as much as it would have 40 years ago because of modern bonding technologies and sophisticated robotic welding, but it’ll raise the cost.
But these issues are all well known. The only question remaining is will the market be willing to pay a bit more and will they be accepting of aluminum pickups. Personally, I try to pay as little as possible to get what I want in a reliable make. All else the same, I’d go for steel at a lower purchase price. Time will tell whether I’m typical.
I might want steel and a slightly lower purchase price too … if we were talking about a small fuel efficient car. In a case like this, however, the fuel savings will be more than the price difference, making the additional cost pay for itself in fuel savings. That’s why Ford’s EcoBoost package is so popular; it pays for itself.
Whitey cites customers paying more for EcoBoost. I believe Ford has done the market research and seen that people will pay more for better fuel economy in these trucks, giving them the confidence that they will pay, say, $500 extra for the aluminum.
@jesmed: Ecoboost is like that slacker kid in H.S. that could always ace his standardized tests, but got C grades while doodling in the margins of his textbooks: it does a lot better on EPA testing than in real life.
From a little knowledge of turbos, I reckon ecoboost gets good MPG if you scrupulously aviod boost. A truck towing/hauling anything of import is gonna need boost. I worry that Ecoboost will only return good mileage in a truck not actually being used as a truck.
Time will tell…
Aluminum doesn’t seem to raise cost as much if you use mechanical rivet and epoxy connections. Now, I have a Crestliner aluminum fishing boat with an all welded hull. They tend to be significantly more expensive. The joint connections on a vehicle can easily be placed in unseen places and areas less affected by air resistance. I just don’t see the problem. Where it will be worse is holding water in the seams. A good weld allows better drainage. Hopefully, that’s where the aluminum can use it’s advantage being more rust resistant. Now, wouldn’t it be a laugh if they used steel rivets. I really don’t see it adding more then a few hundred dollars to the price.
@meanjoe75fan, I think EcoBoost is more than just a turbo. I think it also involves cylinder deactivation and shutters on the radiator that automatically open and close so you don’t get airflow under the hood when you don’t need it. There are probably also other design elements in an EcoBoost engine that I’m not aware of.
@meanjoe, I have no firsthand experience with EcoBoost but have read reviews from truck owners who do say it gets better mileage even when towing, etc.
According to Ford, over 70% of their pickups sold last year were Eco’s. The data would suggest that buyers of pickups will pay more for better mileage.
Whitey, the primary reason for the shutters are to better keep the engine operating at its optimal operating temp. Big rigs have been using them for decades to keep their diesels hot.
“according to engineers who spoke on the condition of anonymity”
And wisely so.
Aluminum is the third most abundant element in the earth’s crust, after oxygen and silicon.
Aluminum should be OK for the F-150 bed. I’ve never seen one with anything at all in the bed here in San Diego.
Mostly driven by wannabee cowboys.