That’s another reason Ford is going with a smaller 2.6 EcoBoost as the smallest engine available. Lots of F150 buyers don’t really carry much and prefer better fuel economy.
. But, at least looking like a full size truck is where the $$$$ is. Ridgeline diesn’t look the part and why sales are suffering. They don’t offer the optional body configurations either that frames are better for. A definite conundrom and why frames may stay with us longer then we think in trucks. Aluminum then is the best answer…perhaps for now.
If aluminum bodies work out for Ford, that’ll be another reason steel frames will be around for a long time. Unibody aluminum is not going to happen.
Why would there not be BOF in perpetuity? You just can’t build a unibody vehicle that tows/hauls a great deal of weight, over significant lenght of time, as cheap or as light. All you can do with unibody is make poseur-mobiles like the Ridgeline. Even poseurs don’t want to be perceived as such!
I agree about the Ridgeline
It’s not a truck, it 's more of a poser
An El Camino is more of a truck, because it is body on frame, at least
El Camino=restyled station wagon,honestly guys how much do think you can safely tow with a 2-2.5 ton vehicle? I could probably borrow a company truck and haul 15 tons in the bed and another15 tons on the trailer,safely and get 6-7 mpg doing it. I realize this is apples to oranges and I know things are better now,but I still remember a Guy doing his best to haul a two axle fertilizer spreader down the road full of fertilizer with an older GM diesel pickup,it was kinda sad.besides most Folks never get their beds dirty or wear the rust off of their hitchballs so go with the zeitgeist ,lighter weight equals more mpg-Kevin
honestly guys how much do think you can safely tow with a 2-2.5 ton vehicle?
Is the only criteria for a vehicle that tow well is how much the towing vehicle weighs??
My 05 4runner/V6 can safely tow 5000lbs. The V8 can tow 7500lbs. Both vehicles weigh about 4600lbs (right in the 2-2.5 ton vehicle).
A definite conundrom and why frames may stay with us longer then we think in trucks.
I was at the Boston Auto Show yesterday. The trend is moving trucks to unibody. GM’s trucks are now all unibody. The new Pathfinder is now unibody (although they went unibody from 97 - 99 then back to body-on-frame). If you do light towing…then the unibody is fine. But any heavy towing…then Body-on-Frame is preferred. Although the GM Mid-size SUV’s had high towing capacities (6000lbs).
“GM’s trucks are now all unibody.”
But not the pickups and Suburban/Tahoe, right?
"The El Camino is more of a truck because it’s body on frame."
Does that mean a Crown Victoria is more of a truck ? Does that make a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a tow rating of nearly 7500 lbs and of unibody construction is an imposter too compared to an ElCamino when towing ?
The ground is blurred because, unibodies are not frameless. The have box frame members built into the body structure instead of separately. But, each has it’s own advantages and choosing one over the other has more to do with economics then towing capability. So guess what the H1 Humvee is ?
Trucks are body on frame because it is cheaper to change body styles and go from short cab to extended cab to crew cab and keep the same drive train while slapping a different body on top. It is also cheaper to make a tow vehicle with a frame but that does not mean that unibody cars and trucks are all wimps when it comes to towing or any less truck like because of it. . The Ridgeline is a legit 5000 rated tow vehicle while some compact trucks with frames top out at 3500. You only get one body style with a Ridgeline which why their sales suffers compared to other compact trucks which arguably, are less truck because they can’t tow as much or carry as much weight in the bed. You can get several different body styles with frames. You can mount plows on them more easily and you can alter them for off roading and towing. It’s the exposed frame that gives you more choices before and after purchase.
Having a frame doesn’t make a vehicle more like a truck, or a car or anything else. It’s just an economic decision on which is the best approach. The big advantage of frames is their flexibility in use, not their assumed strength. For years unibodies have been easier to engineer for better crash prevention. So there are lots of situations where “frame worship” has it’s disadvantages and safety has been one big one. .
If what makes a truck a truck is that it’s much more flexible in use, then that goes without saying and the frame does a lot to contribute to that flexibility. The Ridgeline is still one heck of a compact TRUCK.
Whatever
You’re defending the Ridgeline so much, makes me think you own one
That’s fine. Everybody’s going to make their own decision
If you do own one, you own a Ridgeline, not a truck
At least in my book
A Crown Vic doesn’t even have a bed. Doesn’t look anything like a truck
An El Camino at least somewhat looks the part
I feel the difference is, I define a truck by it’s capabilities not by what it looks like or how it’s made.
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I’m with Dag on this. My definition of a truck is based on its design purpose rather than how it’s made. There is absolutely no reason from an engineering standpoint that a truck cannot be made a unibody, or that a unibody cannot be a truck. If one expands one’s thinking beyond pickup trucks into other types of vehicles, it becomes obvious that monocoque structures can be engineered for all forms of purpose.
However, I do agree that body-on-frame will be with us for the foreseeable future. Truck chassis are designed to accommodate various cargo configurations from pickups to wreckers to stake beds. The most practical and cost effective way to achieve this is body-on-frame. That does not mean that the Ridgeline is not a truck, or that the El Camino was, it just accommodates different configurations and refocuses the definition of the vehicle’s purpose rather than its construction.
But, nomenclatures being what they are, different people will have different opinions. And that’s okay. There’s room for different opinions.
So, by your definition, an S10, Ranger, Colorado, etc. are not trucks?
Because they might not be able to tow as much as a Ridgeline?
Yes or no
Db, why would they not be trucks?
They are small trucks,trying to move the “rubber tree plant”,remember you have to control what you are towing( a friend of mine used to tow his Ford 860 farm tractor with his S-10 with no problem,however He is endowed with more then usual common sense and ability) slow and careful wins this contest(Physics rules) '
I had my brothers Leonard trailer (He used to pull it behind his Taurus) full of firewood behind my Dakota and crossed a small mountain going to Moms house,it was pretty pathetic,what I’m trying to say is, max vs practical,makes a difference-Kevin
@Db4690
I understand why you come to that conclusion if you only read part of my explanation. Remember, I implied my Toyota trucks were trucks even though they couldn’t tow or carry as much of a load as a Ridgeline. Why then wouldn’t a Ridgeline be a real truck…just because it doesn’t have a frame. To me, that is rediculous.
I feel a truck is determined by it’s intended use, and not whether it as a frame or not. You feel an El Comino is more of a truck then a Ridgeline because it “has a frame”. IMHO, that has nothing to do with being a truck. Sure, an El Camino is a truck because it was intended to carry loads and transport material. But, a Ridgeline does all that and much more and not having a separate frame just helps make it more car like in handling. Now, if poor handling becomes a criterion for a truck, that becomes just as much Rediculous for me as a defining reason for a vehicle being a truck.
Back to the original question, here’s an article about two issues with Ford’s aluminum pickup (repair cost and insurance):
http://www.autonews.com/article/20140121/OEM01/140129985/fords-aluminum-f-150-faces-insurance-rate-repair-shop-challenges#axzz2r2bVD8dr
@texases
This is a perfect example of what holds back innovation in the automotive world. Slowly evolving into new design is safer. The unintended consequence of doing something better when no one is prepared…
Good article. A lot of body techs are going to have to learn how to work aluminum.