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Everyone's entitled to an opinion

and the automobile market draws a lot of opinions here of course

and that piece of opinion is somewhat convincing.

Is it no wonder? Not much exciting out there and the prospects are not good unless you want a truck. I submit that some of this is jumping on the band wagon whether it makes sense or not and whether the buying public is on board or not. Style, features, utility, off the page in favor of political spin. I use Mary as an example. Throwing everything out the door in favor of electrics. Maybe that’s the future in 20-30 years but there is only a small percentage of folks (under 10%) that are plunking down their $40-50 K to buy them and something like 40% of these are in California. That leaves the vast buying public between the coasts without options. Not to mention that there are serious issues with the actual viability of wind and solar to provide more than a dent in the grid. Our march to utopia with pot holes. It is not Ford or GM’s job to make political statements with their products but to provide viable products to meet people’s needs and wants. I think either Mary or GM’s days are numbered, as pretty much a lifelong GM buyer.

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Somewhere out there in the automobile world is another multi $billion automobile on its way to be the successor to the Edsel. But then did Saturn cost GM more than the Edsel cost Ford? I would post the “three time loser” joke but Miss Carolyn wouldn’t take kindly to it.

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GM isn’t competing well in automobile, and that is where they plan the switch to electric vehicles. The Bolt is a well done electric, and if they can do the same thing with larger cars, they might be able to do in EVs what Toyota did in hybrids. I think that is what they want to do. They are having success in SUVs and trucks as they are, and I’m sure they aren’t going to abandon those markets any time soon.

My opinion is “what’s taking so long”? Everyone knows we reached the zenith of automotive quality, reliability, and styling sometime in the mid-1990s to early-2000s. It’s been downhill ever since–except of course for prices, which continue their steady march upward!

People will only pay top dollar for gimmicks and B.S. for so long. Eventually, the pendulum will swing the other way: people will want a basic car or a basic work truck at a fair price–or they’ll go with used. The days of car payments higher than rent on a decent apartment will probably end sooner than the industry would like!

Say it ain’t so, though happy with a 10 year lifespan on a computer applying the same criteria to a car computer system is downright scary.

Perfection is expensive.

Yeah but what does it cost to put a bearing in an alternator instead of a bushing? Just as an example. You can beef wear parts up quite a bit at minimal cost. Engines and drive trains are already fairly reliable, its just the electronic gizmos and wear parts. But still I don’t think this is the real issue-it’s that they are not offering much except glitzy stuff that only appeals to techies. You want a car that looks nice, is distinctive, comfortable, fits normal requirements like hauling and carrying passengers, and that you can reasonably drive all day and not expect major issues for 50-100K.

I guess by “perfection” I wasn’t referring to that sort of basic mechanical perfection. I meant the manufactures are trying to cater to every customer’s whim to absolute perfection. So the cars are not just cars that get you to where you are going anymore. Instead they are high-seated driver-assisted computerized offices with an entertainment-room annex, and heated seats.

I don’t see anything on the market that makes me want want to replace my 2012 Camry. since new, it has averaged 26.5 mpg and most of our driving is local and short trip. The highway trips we have done ran from 33 t0 35 and I usually have the cruise set to 9 over the speed limit except where the speed limit is 75, I set it to 80. It’s range is an easy 525 miles and I could usually go another 60. I have never used the bluetooth and seldom use the radio. I would be happier without a touchscreen radio but I had to take it to get the remote locks. The add mark on the dipstick is a good 1.4 inches and at it’s annual oil change in August it has never dropped more than 1/8 inch from full. One repair in 8 years, a washer pump.

and go on from there my plan now. Crap I had a whole paragraph, not retyping now, forgive me.

I can see going another 5 years if terminal rust doesn’t read its head.

Just to go off the rails a little since we’ve gotten into drugs. Some worry about the youth. I worry about the corporate leadership and what that is doing to the marketplace. GM from a history of making locomotives, refrigerators, a multi line of cars, and what not, shrinking to a former shell of what it used to be, and this seen as forward leadership.

Then this morning, Burger King comes out with their non preservative ad campaign with pictures of a moldy whopper. Who are these fools not only coming up with these ads but paying for them? Who is going to be able to put the picture of a moldy whopper out of their mind when and if they ever visit a Burger King again? It’s been a long disorganized struggle for them but they might as well close up shop and sell their ovens. Change my mind.

I’ve never paid close attention to commercials @Bing but more and more I just tune them out or channel surf while they’re on. Many I never understand what they are selling or to who and many that I can understand insult me. And is that the MK commercial where the man is sitting in a car and takes a bite of a sandwich and gets a raw piece of bacon slapping him in the face? That is disgusting.

The financial debacle of the 70s that drug well past 1980 really put a lot of dealerships, burger joints and industries out of business and it was a great motivator for me to open a shop. No one could afford to buy a car so they needed to keep their old one running. And as for changing your mind, that’s what the commercials are trying to do but they’ve run out of ducks, geckos, and failing comedians so they’ve sent in the B Team, C Team… X,Y,Z Teams and that’s what we’re left to see.

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I don’t see anything on the market that makes me want to replace my 2002 Daewoo Lanos, which has bad struts, and barely runs. That should tell you what I think about the quality of today’s new models, my opinion of the “features” which are crammed down the buyer’s throat, and the crazy-high prices being charged.

The car companies are pricing themselves out of the sales business. Although I can afford new cars (if I buy one every several years) I haven’t done that since 1997. They are loaded down with stuff I don’t want, but I’d be paying a king’s ransom for it and missing stuff I do want that is no longer available. I understand that regulations play a part in this, but the net result is the same… expenses, costs, and more of the same.

I hate having to shop for used cars. I pride myself in being pretty savvy, but to get great deals takes lots of time and exhausting effort. However, I love purchasing them and driving them. I have saved so much money over buying new cars that it is actually, literally unbelievable. I have never purchased a bad used car and if I ever did I’m so far ahead of the game that it would almost be insignificant.

Why would I buy a new car from a car company?

True story… (Don’t worry, my wife knows this story :wink:).
When I first met the woman who would become my wife she was driving an older model ugly gold Pontiac Le Mans with a little rust (It did have a 350 V-8 4-barrel!). She was educated and had good employment and she could have been driving something newer and better. But, she wasn’t! That’s just the point! She was pragmatic, conservative, and a saver. And guess what? She and I both continue to be that way. We don’t conflict over money matters.

Anyhow, the car companies have run sales into the ground, trying to sell vehicles that people can’t or choose not to buy. If (and I trust it will happen) the range for EVs becomes more practical and/or charge time becomes quicker, I will be a customer again someday (If I’m still kicking and driving). I have always been a subscriber to machines that have fewer moving parts. The time has come.
CSA
:palm_tree: :sunglasses::palm_tree:

I can think of a lot of vehicles that I would rather have . And there are plenty of reasonable priced new vehicles on the market if one just looks .

Yeah I felt that way when I got rid of my 520,000 mile Riviera. What a joy to be in a car that everything works and a 95% chance of getting from point A to B without a surprise. I don’t even carry a fuel pressure tester, a 2X4 or 5# hammer anymore.

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I have a hunch that Detroit will copy their 1970s error and run off the rails building the wrong cars again. Pushing a high volume of top of the line model$ with fully amortized production facilities has always been the winning play for the big 4 and they seem to be working toward that situation now. It’s just a matter of offering nothing more practical while including ever tacky piece of conspicuous consumption trim and offering financing that actually puts cash in the buyer’s hands when he walks out the door with the new keys.

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