Ken, its Honda Care administered by American Honda Corporation.
My only sticking point is that even the Honda inspector from the insurance company couldn’t figure out why the cam stuck. He never even mentioned lack of oil even though he had all the information from the dealership in front of him. I’m sure the insurance company would have sent him out to specifically look for it since the Diagnostic codes indicated as such.
Puddles of oil in the head depressions mean NOTHING…What counts is the cam bearings being pressure-fed oil. It is YOUR responsibility to check the oil by gauging it with the DIPSTICK. Read your owners manual, it will explain the procedure. When the oil pressure warning light comes on, that doesn’t mean you need to check your oil, that means you have destroyed your engine…I suspect it was flickering on and off as the engine entered it death throes but you did not notice it and now you would NEVER admit that it ever came on since you are trying to get someone other than yourself to pay for the engine. The oil-life indicator is just a computer program. It has NOTHING to do with the oil level and it can’t detect anything about the oil…You noticed the puddle of oil in your garage AFTER the fact, you need to be more aware of these things. The Lube Change Place MIGHT pick up some of the tab, but I bet your LAWYER will have to prod them first…
"Honda said loose drain plug-sure enough, puddle of oil in garage. Honda said its not their problem, call the last place who did your oil change, its their fault, they need to pay for it.
Since I had no visual clue the car needed oil, I argued that point. "
But you DID have a clue…
Good luck with all this.
No one has mentioned this directly. However the oil life monitor and oil light DO NOT have a oil level sensor. The owner should check on a periodic basis the level by opening the hood. The majority of owners never check oil and it is fine. However yours seems to consume oil somehow.
Tardis,
If you are a car mechanic, please explain the lack of metal shavings or a burnt car smell…
The reason for the tear down is because once I submitted a claim to the Extended Warranty through Honda Care, they asked for one to completely diagnosis the problem. Once all the tear down (as mentioned before was done) the mechanic couldn’t find any evidence of low oil-lack of lubrication.
Is there another reason why the cam would stick? Only one cam, not all was what I was told.
I don’t mind discussing this with you and going back and forth, but if you are not a mechanic, please allow others to respond.
To all others who post to this discussion, let’s not get emotional! I thought CarTalk was for answers from professionals who know what they’re talking about.
Thank you.
Caddyman,
The oil pressure warning light never came on. I know that, my husband knows that (I’m telling you, he does everything by the book! our maintenance records will prove that) and the AAA driver who tried to start the car didn’t see one either.
I’m not some backwoods country girl, I have no reason to PURPOSELY destroy my car. Please don’t post comments based on assumptions. Let’s stay civil here.
Please only post if you are a car mechanic and can answer the questions.
“Claim Denied” Do you have any further questions?
Most of the responders to your thread ARE Auto Mechanics. I am a retired ASE Certified mechanic.
How much TIME past between the botched oil change and the engine failure??
It leaked out on the floor of their garage and no warranty is going to pay for THAT!
Caddyman,
How do we know it didn’t leak out over night? Please don’t make assumptions that we don’t take care of our cars. Like I’ve posted before, our car maintenance history shows we have been diligent in taking care of this car. Paperwork/facts can’t dispute that. Why would we all of a sudden CHOOSE to let the car fail? we bought the car new and we’re not lottery winners, so it should be assumed we would want to keep the car in tip top shape.
Please only respond if you are a car mechanic and can answer the mechanical questions on this post.
For example, if there were no metal shavings/filings and no burnt smell on the engine, how can it be from lack of lubrication?
or this one, if Honda only checked the dipstick, how do they know the engine was starved for oil? how do they know when I last drove the car? I’m a stay at home mom, I don’t drive the car all that much.
Caddyman,
Please read the post. I originally wrote 3 months ago. November 11th to be exact.
How long does it take for oil to leak from a car if the drain plug is loose?
Heres what the owners manual for my 87 Ranger tells me about the oil LEVEL indicator: “This light will glow momentarily when the ignition switch is turned to start. If the light glows steadily while the engine is running the oil level should be checked”
What does the owners manual for your Honda tell you about the oil LEVEL indicator on your car?
3 months and no one ever took 60 seconds to pull the dipstick & check the oil? OUCH.
I’ve seen the light come on once in the 240,000 miles that i’ve owned the truck. It took slightly more than a quart to bring the level back to the full mark.
All fluid levels should be checked weekly. I do it every saturday morning.
Tardis,
The shop and the Honda Inspector are both at a loss as to what happened in the car. Again, the Honda rep did not know what the problem was.
87 Ranger,
Thanks for your reply and thank you for being polite. (I mean that sincerely, some of these responders are getting nuts)
The thing is, I didn’t get any oil level indicator in the car. The only oil message is in the dash, and that’s always on. It gives a % of oil. Last I checked it was at 50%, before the AAA driver took the car.
I only drove it 3,450 miles from the last oil change. Cartalk says to change it ever 5k, so I’m good there.
Ken,
Thank you for your post and for being civil. I will keep working on Honda Care and hopefully get this resolved.
Andrew,
Thank you for stating the obvious. Other then retirees or people with alot of time on their hands, I think 8 out of 10 people check their oil weekly.
Why can’t I rely on the car to tell me when it needs oil? or to rely on the sticker from the shop? I think they were having me change it every 3k or by a certain date, can’t be sure. But since I started this post, I found out that I drove 3,450 miles since the last oil change.
I am not a mechanic, but you still have not told us what your manual says regarding the oil light. Please post that.
Also post what it states about checking all fluid levels.
Just so we know and will quit pestering you for the information.
"Please only respond if you are a car mechanic and can answer the mechanical questions on this post."
What she really means is to respond only if you support her flawed theory that she is not responsible for this.
I’m done talking to the brick wall on this.
MN Driver-
Sorry, the manual is in the car at the shop! And just to repeat, I DID NOT get an oil light prior to any problems. The malfunction lamp that DID come on said to check the fuel cap and after tightening it, the light will go off in a few days. Day 2-3, the light was still on, then I got the VSA light and the car had physical indications of a problem. That is when I took it in, rather, had it towed because it wouldn’t start.
But here is what I pulled from the internet for the oil lights.
Cartalk article on oil life percentage meter in the dash(mine said "Oil Life 50%): The Honda system gives you a reading of “oil life remaining.” So when you first change the oil, it reads 100 percent. You’re supposed to change the oil before the gauge reads 0 percent.
Another CarTalk article on the actual Oil Pressure indicator (the genie lamp looking one)
This indicator doesn’t measure the amount of oil in your car’s engine – it measures the pressure of the oil. And the results of ignoring this gauge can be disastrous. If you keep driving with the oil light on, your car could melt down in front of your eyes in a mile or two
I did not see this light on. Neither did the Honda dealer mechanic when he first got the car. The only low oil indicator was the dipstick.
I know this isn’t what you hope to hear, but the driver of a car has some reasonable responsibility to check the oil level via the dipstick on a routine basis. It’s what s called in the law “due diligence”.
If the oil had run out 10 miles after the oil change due to a loose plug then it would not be reasonable to expect a check of the dipstick to have prevented the damage, but if I understand your post correctly that’s not what happened. And IMHO you’ve gone too long without checking your oil to hold the shop that did the last oil change responsible.
You may also want to read the description in the owner’s manual of what the “oil life” montoring system really does. It does not monitor oil level. Even as regards to oil life, it assumes that the level is being checked. 1 quart of oil has probably 25% of the life expectancy of 4 quarts of oil. There’s simply less fluid to suspend contaminants, absorb the impact of dilutants from combustion blowby, and even absorb heat from the cylinder walls (which means the oil gets hotter). It relys on you to monitor the oil level.
The “genie lamp” if it were to come on would mean that the oil level had dropped to such a low leval that the top of the pool had gone below the oil pump pickup tube and you’d lost pressure completely. It simply says “serious loss of oil pressure - stop the engine NOW”. It too does not indicate a need to add oil, just a warning for not having done so until too late.
Honda has no responsibility in this whatsoever. An argument could be made that the last oil change place bears some responsibility, but the bulk of the responsibility IMHO lies with you for neglecting basic driver responsibility. I’m certain that your owner’s manual, dhould you read it, will recommend routinely checking the oil level with the dipstick as a driver responsibility.
Damage can occur without obvious metal shavings and a burnt smell. One of the main things the oil does is maintain a pressurized fluid barrier that holds sleeve bearings and their corresponding wear surfaces apart. Key ones are along the crankshaft and the camshafts. These surfaces if deprived of oil can seize together without creating loose shavings in a process called “galling”, where they basically transfer metal, essentially in a sort of welding process.
My hope is that you learn from this. Consider it an expensive class in basic maintenance.
I know this answer will not make you happy. It may even offend and anger you. I apologize for that. But this is the reality. People are trying to be kind about it, but in all honesty the biggest cause of the failed engine is neglect.
Sorry. That’s my honest opinion.
Tardis,
If you are a car mechanic, please explain the lack of metal shavings, bad odor.
Please provide answers not emotional commentary.
I appreciate your post and contrary to what others are posting about me, I’m looking for responses like yours. I’ve only been able to go off of what the mechanic has told me. I’m throwing in the Honda inspector too only because he’s supposed to represent Honda’s interest, and if he couldn’t determine engine failure from lack of oil, then what?
Okay, so if my last oil change was 3,650 miles ago, what is reasonable for checking the oil? In reality, we all know MOST drivers do not check their oil weekly…
We have been diligent in having our car in for maintenance at all regular intervals that Honda had suggested, as well as regular oil changes.
I guess my only question is, if the car was so starved for oil that it would COMPLETELY break the car, why didn’t I get any malfunction lamps prior? Why did the car wait until it had 1 quart of oil (or none) to tell me there were problems?
Is it possible the Oil Sensor got out of wack? I mean, seriously, one minute I’m driving and the car is fine, the next I can’t get it out of my driveway.
And to repeat, we take good care of our cars, with children and all that, we have no reason to be slackers.
If any oil lights, oil pressure whatever had gone off in the car, we would have checked the fluids and had all the proper maintenance checked.
Thank you again for your honest post. I hope we can keep up the discussion. Its been exhausting reading some of the more emotional posts rather then just stating facts and mechanical answers like yours.