Engine Dies, starts after a couple minutes rest - 2002 Dodge Stratus

Maintenance/Repairs
1

I tried to continue a thread on this, but the “Save” button doesn’t work? Tried 2 different browsers, cannot save edits or replies? Gave up, started this new topic.

The problem started ~2 weeks ago with engine just dying twice without warning.

The car ran perfect for 2 weeks; yesterday was a nightmare. In a 7 mile distance, it died 5 times. The first 3 times it would restart after a minutes rest, the 4th time it started after 15 minutes. The 5th time it died in my driveway.

The first time it died, I immediately hooked up a spare spark plug and there was no spark. Ok, great, that narrows down the issue.

While trying to get home, it felt like an intermittent loss of power and not “normal” autotrans shifting. I did notice the tach bouncing between 1k/2k for a couple seconds, but the car didn’t die.

When I finally got home, it died in the driveway and I immediately I hooked up a timing light. Cranked the engine and no spark. Cranked again, no spark, then spark and the car fired right up and idled perfect.

Coil pack, wires, plugs, crank/cam sensors are all recently new.

If the computer isn’t receiving needed sensor data, will it not throw a spark? It looks like the computer doesn’t have the info it needs and cuts out the spark. When it gets the info, it sparks and starts/runs perfect.

Would a flaky throttle position sensor cause the computer to cut the spark?

There are no codes and engine light has not come on.

Opinions:)

2

The distributor assembly may be failing.

image

Tester

3

That diagram is a 6 cylinder, I have a 4 cylinder; layout doesn’t seem to fit my car. Is the Blue area one unit with a 7 wire connector? What car/engine is that diagram?

For my car, the ignition coil and distributor are one unit and the connector has 3 wires.

Normally, when the key is turned, the computer reads the sensors and when all is right, it throws that first spark and off we go…so if a sensor flakes while the car is running, will the computer be so confused that it kills the spark and gives up?

4

Do you see the blk/blu wire pointed to by the 2.7 v pulse (Tester’s drawing above)? That pulse turns on the transistor, causing current to flow to the low-voltage part of the coil (right side), & is what initiates the high voltage spark (left side), which then goes to the center tap on the distributor then via the dist rotor to the spark plug. If that input pulse is absent, there will be no spark. On a 2002 Stratus I expect that pulse comes from the engine computer. The only way the computer knows when to output that pulse is from timing sensors it reads when the engine is rotating. If the sensors aren’t telling the computer the engine is rotating, the computer won’t output that pulse, and there will be no spark.

So most likely

  • An engine timing sensor isn’t providing needed input to computer
  • Timing sensor signals ok, but computer isn’t providing output pulse to turn on ignition transistor
  • Computer is receiving timing sensor signals & providing pulse to turn on transistor, but some problem in that purple box is preventing the spark process from happening correctly.

My guess, the computer isn’t receiving all of the engine timing signals it requires. If it doesn’t receive them, it doesn’t necessarily know there’s a problem, it just thinks the engine isn’t rotating so no sparks are required, doesn’t flag it as a problem.

No idea why the “save” button didn’t work on your prior thread. In some cases a thread will be marked as “closed” by the forum moderator. If so, no more posts are allowed. Maybe that is what happened.

5

Then the next thing I would suspect is a bad ASD relay.

Tester

6

@George_San_Jose1
Thanks for the explanation. I’ll investigate and keep a volt meter in the car.

@Tester
For my car, the ASD controls the 12V line for fuel injectors and coil pack. I removed the ASD, opened it, looked good, contacts showed just a wee bit of wear. Cleaned with 600 grit sandpaper. I understand relays can look good but be flaky, so I also cleaned the fan high relay and swapped it with the ASD.

9 months ago, I found the cam position sensor had a crack in it. There was a small amount of oil in the o-ring sealed cavity that had not been opened in 21 years.

I removed the sensor yesterday and there was more oil from just 9 months than from 21 years coating the sensor and magnet. I suspect the oil was interfering with the timing process when things got hot.

Going to open the cavity bi-weekly, clean it and see if my problem is solved. Source of leak looks like a cam shaft seal and not fun…so I’ll put it off as long as possible and hope it stops leaking…lol:)

Edit: I left the cam position sensor connected, but not installed. I had a timing light hooked up and cranked the engine…no spark for a few seconds but then engine actually started! It did throw a code though.

Cranking but no spark is the issue…so that oil coated cam sensor is highly suspect. Searching around the web, the PCM is also a strong candidate. Dodge put the PCM and Transmission computers in the engine compartment…they get blazing hot…“design engineers”.

1 Like
7

Where are you getting all the parts/sensors from???

8

@davesmopar

#1 Rock Auto

#2 Amazon

#3 eBay

#4 Local parts stores - search web for discount codes when you buy online.

Be careful with #2 and #3, high probably of fakes…you pay for a name brand, get some off brand with a 30 day warranty in a plain box or no box at all!

Oh, and Rock Auto is a no hand holding site. You have to know what you need, they will show you all kinds of parts that don’t fit your specific car…lol.

1 Like
9

I have seen A LOT of AZ electronics fail…

If the seal is not holding the oil back then it sounds like a low quality seals and maybe even sensor is used… Just a thought…

And yes Chrysler had a lot of issues with computers…

10

@davesmopar

The car/seal is 21 years old, so that’s a pretty good run for a Dodge oil seal.

The PCM, Power Control Module, is available on ebay, programmed to my VIN, for ~$130…not a bad deal…super easy to replace too.

If the problem persists, the PCM is the next part I throw at it.

11

Is that not the NEW sensor O-rings you spoke of??

Maybe I misunderstood you…

12

@davesmopar

The cam shaft comes out of the engine just below the valve cover into a cavity that holds the magnet. It’s the cam shaft seal that is seeping oil.

The Cam position sensor o-ring seals the cavity and holds in the leaking oil. I have the old o-ring…I was thinking of using it by cutting an 1/8" out of the bottom of it to let the oil leak out rather than pool inside the cavity.

The correct/difficult fix is the cam seal…the DIY “good enough for an old car” fix is to cut the o-ring and let it drain out:) The cavity is sealed to keep it clean, it’s no big deal to open/clean it, would just make it a part of an oil change. Not excited about removing the cam shaft to replace the seal…

13

Suggest to double check that camshaft must be removed to replace the seal, esp if your '02 Stratus uses a timing belt.

14

Solution:

Short story: The new Crank Shaft position sensor I bought on ebay went flaky after just 7 months. This was the cause of the car shutting off without warning.

Don’t buy cheap Chinese made parts on ebay or anywhere else! lesson learned, again…

While I was trying to solve the engine off problem, the car self destructed in other ways…man what a nightmare!

The fuel pump hadn’t sounded happy for a couple years, and sure enough while trying solve dead problem the fuel pump bailed out on me…so I stopped work on that, pulled the tank and installed a new pump. Inside of tank looked new, I was really surprised, very little debris that cleaned up easily with a towel wipe.

After replacing the tank, the fuel gauge didn’t work…SIGH! Before removing the tank, I decided to check YouTube for ideas…you won’t believe this…there is a procedure involving holding down the trip odometer reset that resets the fuel gauge…yep, fixed my gauge by holding down the trip button.

Car is 21 years old, so I tossed in a bunch of new parts to try and bring back solid reliability…so far so good…runs like new, still a little fear in my heart when I get away from home…nothing worse than losing trust in your car to get you there.

1 Like
15

Multiple failures can happen to diy’ers repairing their cars, just a run of bad luck is all. I’ll bet some of the posters here have their own stories. Some years ago, while in the process of replacing my truck’s leaking fuel pump the carburetor decided to stop working … lol . .

Glad you got your Stratus back on the road with a replacement crank sensor. That part is often mentioned here as a possible cause for engine symptoms, but don’t recall very many posters coming back saying it actually was the cause. IMHO the Stratus is a very nice looking car.

1 Like
16

I learned a lot about how this car works…I’ll bet I know more than a shop mechanic about Dodge Stratus’s. :slightly_smiling_face:

I thought the fuel pump would be a bear, but it was really pretty easy…new pump was $80 and took about 3 hours…so I’m betting that’s a $700 repair in a shop.

All in all, new suspension parts, sensors, fuel pump… I’ll betcha I did $5000 worth of work on this car installing ~$400 worth of parts.

1 Like
17

And there is also the factor of a vehicle that–at 21 years old–is surely beyond the manufacturer’s intended design life.

1 Like
18

And that’s when you know it’s time to get rid of it.

1 Like
19

That can happen at shops also, but the shop almost always gets the blame for that…

Heck we had a customer come in close to closing time that had said he would get it the next day and saw us drive his vehicle in the shop for the night, as he was paying for his oil change he told me that it had stalled a few times but would bring it back when he had more time, well needles to say he saw us try to start his vehicle to pull it out of the shop and it just cranked… He laughed and said I guess I will be getting those cam/crank sensors you told me about now… lol… got to love a Nissan…

20

No way. Cheap wheels, full of new parts, runs like new. Rust is just starting to be a cosmetic problem while the underside looks really good, nothing seriously rusted.

I pay $220 a year for liability insurance under a $1.5M umbrella policy.

Stopped in a gas station the other day, newish car with hood up, lady sitting inside…she said “it won’t start” and it had just come out of the shop for the same problem. Looking into the engine compartment, what a nightmare of parts…no thanks, a 2002 Dodge is super easy to work on. The only royal pain is the water pump; absolutely buried…that was no fun.