Electric Vehicle

That is a key point. Forcing the market causes chaos. Allowing the market to develop is the correct path. Those EV owners with convienient commutes and charging points are the early adopters that encourage the installation of commercial fast chargers to service the apartment dweller, long commuter or nationwide traveller.

The worst thing we can do is mandate a conversion date to EVs when neither market acceptance nor the infrastructure is ready. California tried to force that in the 90s. How well did that work out? Learn from the mistakes of history. Don’t try and repeat them with greater force.

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And that’s exactly what’s it doing. Who ever said the market is being FORCED.

No. If you give it a very short time table then yes it’s a problem. But 15 years seems to be a far enough goal. And as with any government goal the goal posts move. You set a date to get things rolling. Look at the Real ID mandate after 911. The original date was to have all states issue a Real ID by 2008. Here we are 2021 and the date is again pushed out.

That is true in my area, also. There is a Tesla charging station in a large Panera parking lot 7 miles from my house. That Panera is located on US Route 1. About 15 miles north of there–also on Route 1–there is a Tesla charging station at the Menlo Park Mall. Both of these were built w/o any “government money”.

Well, Gavin Newsom is forcing the car market in CA;
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/cars/california-2035-zev-mandate/index.html
And trucks in California;

Cuomo is trying to force this in New York;

Maybe New Jersey;

Forcing the market in the UK;

Forcing in Germany;

More forcing in Canada;

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Charger at home.

I had a '71 Charger and I should never have sold it.
What is the model year of your Charger?

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’ charger at home ’ — Could that be a reference to his wife ?

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i had a cougar once,

If they make an electric version of the Charger they could call it the Discharger.

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You mean like the flying cars that “they” told us we would be driving in the year 2,000? Or the self driving cars “they” told us we would be owning in 2015? Or the fuel cell cars that “they” told us we would all own in 2010?

Battery metals are in short supply and the demand to meet the aggressive goals of no ICE vehicles sold in 2035 cannot be met without destroying the environment or crazy price increases that will drive people (no pun intended) to keep their existing ICE vehicles well past 2035. Gas stations will be forced to decide whether to convert partially or fully to the magical 10 minute electric car recharges (which it remains to be seen if it can be safely done in less than 10 years) or to keep selling dino juice to a very large and reluctant (or economically disadvantaged) population of car owners.

Don’t get me wrong. I love technology and I love everything about the prospect of electric vehicles, but I have lived many places under many circumstances and I can tell you that infrastructure will have to take the lead here before reluctant car buyers change allegiance to electric.

HUH??? Those are GOALS. Doesn’t mean that they must be met at all costs. George Bush put a goal of having “Real ID” as a requirement to fly by 2008. Was that goal met? It was pushed back at lest 4 times. Having a goal does NOT mean destroying anything. Look at your history.

As an engineer - it’s extremely common to have goals to reach. Doesn’t mean we can meet them all or even if it’s possible. Remember Ronald Reagans “Star Wars Initiative Goal”? We tried, but failed miserly.

Gas stations will follow the market as they always have.

Even Lamborghini is going this route. Both hybrids and all-electric vehicles are in the works, but I guess this shouldn’t be too surprising in view of their being owned by VW.

Lamborghini will debut its first all-electric supercar after 2025 - The Verge

To be fair, Tesla does have their auto pilot feature, and it was introduced in October 2015

I agree that these are “goals”, but the general population is treating these pronouncements like they are fact and the ICE will be dead in 14 years. At best, in 14 years all cars sold will be electric. I would be shocked (pun intended) if that goal is met in less than 19 years. Then I predict another ten years of of enough people hanging onto their ICE cars that gas stations and gas cars will be relevant for the next 29 years.

I agree that basic economics will drive this discussion in one direction or the other. The more expensive gas gets, the more inclined people are to walk away from it.

Meh. It’s not an autonomous vehicle. Even Tesla calls it a “driver assist” technology. It’s not perfect, has yet to be proven useful in a winter climate with tons of snow (like where I live) and has killed a few people that have tried to use it as a full auto pilot (at least two in the last two months).

I have tons of driver assist technology in my Mazda. I love it and use it to make driving much more pleasurable. But I still have to drive. The mountain is large and the climb is long. We will get there with electric cars and other goals, but it will take much longer than the government or car companies are telling us.

And, FWIW, a Tesla is not a car for the masses. My starving and student children are driving cars that cost them less than $10,000 in the last three years. How much does that get you with a Tesla? They all drive a ton of miles and live places where charging is not possible. Their story is the story of economically disadvantaged people everywhere. And they will probably not own an EV until they can afford a used one with great range, easy filling at a quick charger, and modestly priced. That seems a long way in the future to me.

There’s an article today in USA Today about the F150 Lightening and the formal introduction yesterday. A crew cab EV pick for under $40,000. Pretty good deal. I imagine that is the work truck with the 250 mile range, but that will be very useful for a lot of fleet pickups. Hey, President Biden loved his test drive. 4 seconds 0-60, too.

Yeah that’s the base work truck price, $55,000 for the XLT and going up to about $90,000 fully loaded. 300mi with the extended range battery.