Have to agree Bing,my wife had an older Volvo(with a massive aluminum,energy absorbing bumper)somebody bumped Her pretty hard on an on ramp and it didnt hurt the old 740 a bit,on the other hand,the slightest bump on the step bumper on my Dakota,leaves a" lasting impression" The insurance industry didnt want to keep paying exorbiant amounts for minor repairs,even though most Folks carry a pretty high deductable.
Just how many lives were saved by 5mph bumpers?
The 5ph hour bumpers where designed to limit damage to things like headlights or fuel systems.
The point is…it’s NOT the government conspiracy why there are so many safety regulations…BIG BUSINESS (A.K.A Insurance industry) and their Millions of dollars spend on lobbyists is what’s driving most of these regulations.
Well…big business in bed with government. Big business lacks the authority to say a mfr MUST sell me a car with “buzzkill stability control” against my wishes, or face a big fine.
I don’t necessarily mind the safety features although I do think they go a little overboard. I do take exception to the message making me pledge to obey all traffic and safety laws though every time you start some cars up. Maybe mostly rentals although my BIL says his new Jeep does that but you can program it off. So I can see Avis saying you took the pledge and you were driving 40 in a 35 according to our GPS. $50 fine son.
What I do mind though is the EPA mileage standards that are driving all the little engines and lack of towing capacity. Maybe it is the little engine that could but I suspect these little buzz boxes will not hold a candle to the V6’s as far as longevity goes. So tack on another hidden cost of $5-10K per car for lowered utility. All from people that probably commute on the subway and live in picky pack town houses but have dedicated their careers to keeping the air in Nebraska clean.
As I fumbled with the new lawn mower gas can trying to figure out how to open the spout to pour the gas in. Finally just broke the tab off and that worked. I quickly put the cap back on so as not to allow any gas fumes to contaminate the South Dakota air.
Bing, don’t feel bad, NOBODY can work the new gas cans. 
Do you think citizens might be involved too? We have a lot of posters looking for a reliable, safe car or truck, often to carry their children around. There are a lot of those people around. Maybe you are one of them. Maybe it is a conspiracy by society to want safer cars. Of course, then it wouldn’t be a conspiracy.
Maybe it is a conspiracy by society to want safer cars. Of course, then it wouldn't be a conspiracy.
You mean the very same people who won’t obey speed limits, text and talk on cell phones while driving, who run red lights, and won’t wear their seat belts?
Sorry, jt, but I refuse to accept any responsibility whatsoever for the out-of-control regulatory agencies continuing to propagate regulations long after their mandate has been met, nor do I feel any responsibility for lobbyists for the insurance industry continuing to promote more and more regulations with the sole (hidden) agenda of reducing insurance company payouts. :neutral:
IMHO blaming the “citizens” is, while definitely a different perspective that stimulates thought, misplaced.
Maybe it is a conspiracy by society to want safer cars. Of course, then it wouldn't be a conspiracy.It's one thing to choose a safer car for yourself. It's another thing entirely to force your choices on unwilling consumers, via the implied threat of Federal edicts.
the insurance industry continuing to promote more and more regulations with the sole (hidden) agenda of reducing insurance company payouts. :neutral:
And then the auto industry shot back by giving us cars with $120 tail light lenses.
If lowering insurance payouts was the impetus for 5 mph bumpers, I feel it would have made better sense to mandate cars with inexpensive to replace sacrificial bumpers that protected the rest of the car by being crushed instead.
Then you could go to the dealer and a few minutes later, a brand new bumper for the price of a new tire or muffler.
Let me get a little out of control since its 9/11. They are called helicopter parents, hovering over the kids and making sure they never scrape their knees and are always in sight and out of danger. They get their satisfaction from this. They are the same ones that think everyone should get an award for being average. So yeah, I’ll agree there are those in the market that safety is of prime importance, even though we’ll all end up dead some day.
But then in the past, we roamed the woods all day and only got awards if we did something really outstanding. But then the kids got sent to get shot at and blown up through no choice of their own. Then when our generation took over we gave people a choice to get shot at so the rest of us could be safe. I dunno, maybe we need to do some sorting out and some balance but I’m beginning to think ending the draft was a mistake. So now instead of having to participate, we just hire it done.
Well the economy almost guarentees that a volunteer army will be availibe(I dont know the reason for our kids ,to have to go to these forsaken,oil producing,mineral rich,strategic places.Maybe we should spend some of that money on domestic production)When our greed makes us outsource production of autos and things(rather then pay a living wage to our countrymen,I think its time for the greedy businessmen to be held accountable)we are being hoodwinked Folks and are growing weaker all the time.
B.L.E., that WAS the impetus for 5mph bumpers. The goal was to have bumpers that would withstand 5mph impacts without damage, eliminating the countless claims for parking lot accidents. I was around when this mandate was implemented, and I clearly remember all the discussions and articles about it.
Mountainbike, where did you get the idea that I was "blaming " citizens, and where did you get the idea that I meant “all citizens”. Blame implies I have little regard for their personal interests, and I made no value judgements about them. Since it is clear that I was providing a counterpoint to some citizens lament about auto safety laws, I could not have meant “all citizens”. Please do not assign such sweeping statements to me again.
B.L.E., that WAS the impetus for 5mph bumpers. The goal was to have bumpers that would withstand 5mph impacts without damage, eliminating the countless claims for parking lot accidents. I was around when this mandate was implemented, and I clearly remember all the discussions and articles about it.
I believe that there were two unforeseen problems with that.
- A whole lot of those “5 mph collisions” turned out to be 10 mph collisions.
- Define “without damage”.
“without damage” is pretty subjective, isn’t it?
Considering that the actual bumper is NOT visible
Yup . . . only the bumper skin is visible
So you could have a 5mph incident in the grocery store parking lot, where the bumper skin is all scratched and scuffed up, but the actual bumper underneath is unscathed
You could interpret that to mean the actual bumper . . . underneath . . . is undamaged
Or you could interpret that to mean the bumper skin is part of the bumper, and looks like hell, so there IS substantial damage
I imagine a typical car owner, who is not a car guy, like I am, is not going to care about the difference between bumper and bumper skin. He’s going to look at the scuffed up bumper skin, missing paint, etc., and say “My bumper is . . . . ed up!”
^ I hold that the bumper skin is like the surface of a suitcase: it’s sacrificial in nature, designed to absorb the scrapes, slings, etc. of daily life, to protect what’s behind it. As long as the bumper continues to function properly, and does not transmit damage to other structures, it did its job. Expecting the bumper skin to look virginial after contact is, IMO, unrealistic.
I understand that the painted plastic bumper skin is going to show scrapes, scratches, rips, etc. during normal use, but it is still damage that some of us repair to keep the cars looking new. Contrast that to the days of old where the bumpers themselves were chromed steel or at least had a metal strip or rubber strip to absorb the impact. There would be no damage at all in a parking lot impact. So having no damage is realistic if the bumpers are reasonably designed. Again it is the weight difference that caused the plastic coated bumpers. The insurance industry just wanted the bumpers with the shock absorbers to reduce damage and never called for the bumper covers.
Read this. Further questions can be easily researched with this information.