Easiest way to repair an engine which knocks, without pulling it from the car?

Maintenance/Repairs
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22

There is NO way to “polish” 0.25 mm off that crank pin while it is IN the car to fit the new bearing and still be round. No way. You might polish it as best you can and fit a standard size bearing in to check clearances. Use Plastigauge for that. Look up the proper clearance but I’d guess it is about 0.0015 inches or 0.038 mm. If it measures out 0.0020 or more that bearing will fail VERY quickly and you’ll be back where you are now.

The correct way to fix it is to remove the crankshaft and have it ground undersize on rods and mains to fit the 0.25 mm bearings. Since the #1 rod was pounding around, it might not be round on the big end anymore so it may need to be honed. All this tells you the engine MUST come out.

Oh, and connecting rod side clearance matters. Less than bearing clearance but it still matters. Too much and the crank or rod or both may be ruined and need replacement.

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23

Pull the engine… You will be glad you did. Working around everything like you are planning is simply more work in my opinion.

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With all that trash in the oil, I don’t think simply replacing the rod and crank bearings is going to cut it.

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So I have thought about the fact that in order to polish the crankshaft journals and have them still be accurately round, the crankshaft must be rotating–preferably in the direction which the engine runs. I have found 600-grit emery cloth online, which is 1" wide, and comes in a roll of 150’. I think that should be suitable.

My plan is to push all four pistons up to the top of the cylinder bore, and hold the emery cloth against the journal from below, while a helper turns the engine using an electric drill with a nutdriver bit on the crankshaft pulley. With a battery powered drill, low enough RPMs can be obtained to allow for smooth sanding. I will probably remove the timing belt to reduce resistance, and eliminate “jumping” due to the valve spring action.

I am also going to order a set of standard bearings, one extra standard-size bearing to use for mock-up to check clearances, two 0.25mm undersize bearings (one to use for mock-up) and one to actually use if necessary, and some Plastigage. And of course, a new timing belt kit, new water pump, new accessory belts, new valve cover gasket, and new oil pan gasket.

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Will not work. The crank throws will hit the dangling rods, 600 grit will take a week to do one crank pin. There will be no oil to lube the main bearings and grit will be slung all throughout the engine lower. The crank pins will not be uniformly cylindrical.

Rent an engine hoist, yank the motor and do it right. Renting the hoist for a day will be cheaper than the cost of that sanding roll All this pfutzing around trying to re-machine a crank while it is in the car will take loads more of time and won’t work anyway.

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Why won’t you get the “core charge” back?, just give them your old engine.

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There used to be a machine that would regrind and polish the throw on a crankshaft without removing the engine from the car. The oil pan had to removed of course. The machine was portable and there were machinists who would travel and provide this service to auto repair shops. I saw a machine operator regrind the crankshaft on a 1949 Chrysler. He came to the independent shop where I was a customer and did the job. It wasn’t my car, but I was fascinated that the crankshaft could be machined without removing the engine. This was back in 1963 and I haven’t seen a machine like this since that time. Even back then, on some cars, the oil pan couldn’t be removed without pulling the engine. The 1947 Studebaker was one car where the engine had to be pulled to remove the oil pan.

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A remanufactured crankshaft with rod and main bearings is $195 from O’Reilly Auto Parts, shop around, you may find a crankshaft kit for less.

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If OP is just doing some diy’er experiments to see if something or the other is possible or not as entertainment and relaxation, good for them. Just take care to do it safely is all. OP may discover something new in the process, who’s to say? As posted repeatedly above, if the ultimate objective is to get this Sundance on the road again, common sense says this sort of job requires removing the engine and having its condition assessed by an experienced machine shop as the first step. Once that’s done then OP will have the needed info to formulate a workable plan.

As far as “alternative” lathes,I’ve used a power drill and sandpaper to slightly reduce the diameter of washers while still keeping them round, stuff like that. Worked out ok for what I needed done.

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I got the abrasive cloth in the mail today, and decided to pull the remaining 3 bearings and do whatever sanding is necessary. Other than cylinder #1, the bearings had only minor light scratches, and the crankshaft journals looked smooth and scratch-free.

I decided to use the nicest-looking used bearings (which came from cylinder #4) to do a mock-up and see how much “play” is in the #1 journal. I do not need a precision measuring tool to see that the journal is not even close to round, and has less than 1mm “play” in one direction and about 2mm “play” in the other direction. I guess I am going to have to figure out how to get the motor out, and proceed with replacing the crankshaft.

Anyone here have any experience removing the engine from a Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth vehicle equipped with the 2.2 or 2.5 engine? Is there ANY way to separate the engine from the transmission, and lift out the engine only? If they must come out together, how hard is it to remove the drive axles? Any special tools needed?

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I have removed the engine block and transmission from the car, and they are now sitting on a dolly. The engine and transmission are still bolted together, but I did remove the 4 bolts connecting the flex plate to the torque converter before unbolting the motor mounts and hoisting it out.

So now I am trying to determine what I should do in order to make this into a reliable car again.

This is the “numbers matching” original motor, however at some point someone decided to do the balance shaft delete modification–cut off the drive chain, remove the balance shaft assembly, and force a threaded bolt into the oil gallery hole in the block. I read online that when removing the balance shaft assembly, it is necessary to reinstall the empty casing or install a metal baffle in the oil pan, or obtain an oil pan for a 2.2L engine, which is shallower in order to prevent oil pressure loss during cornering. None of these things were done.

I would very much like to replace the motor, but getting it out was a lot of effort, and likely more than I could accomplish, even with another man, at a “you pull it” yard. I have called all of the local salvage yards where they pull the parts for you, and none offer parts for anything older than 2000. I can get this motor online, delivered to my door for about $1300, though I’m not sure I want to spend that. The main reason is because I would still have to pay for machine shop work, as I must take it apart, install the short block and transmission together and then install the cylinder head with intake and exhaust manifolds later. Otherwise, I’d have no way to connect the wiring for the starter.

I am unsure at this point what will give the most “bang for the buck”. The engine ran fine other than knocking very loudly, and I can still see the factory honing marks in the cylinders. In fact, the only damage I can see is that one crankshaft journal is ovaled out. The bearings on that cylinder were changed at least once, because all of the others had a 1992 date code stamped in the back, and that one had a 2014 date code and different brand.

Perhaps a crankshaft kit might be the best option, as all new bearings are included? The only thing that worries me is if the knocking connecting rod might be weakened or damaged in some way. If I go to the “you pull it” yard and find a car with similar mileage, could I get away with using a used piston and connecting rod assembly? Does anyone here know of a place where I can get a decent short block somewhere for $1000 or less?

Also, when I install the used or repaired engine, what all should be replaced? I am planning to install new belts, radiator hoses, heater hoses, fuel injection hoses, vacuum lines, motor mount inserts, water pump, various engine seals and gaskets, and of course replace all of the seals and gaskets on the transmission due to external leaks.

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I wouldn’t go through the labor of pulling the engine and transmission without putting in a new crankshaft, main, and rod bearings at least. And, as much as I’ve always preferred Chrysler products, a Sundance would not be one of them. This car belongs in the junkyard.

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Hard to advise at all here since we have no clue what we are talking about… Make? Model? I feel like we are discussing a Honda for some reason but… Could also be Chrysler/Mitsu but again…guessing.

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from post #1. :slight_smile:

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Absolutely no one cares about that, nor should you.

Pull the head, yank the bad piston and rod, take it to a machine shop to have the big end checked and re-sized if needed. Bring the crank and have it ground undersize, buy the correct bearings for the undersize crank or buy a crankshaft kit and put it back together.

Find and replace the balance shaft and hardware. Every gasket, every rubber seal, everything made of rubber - hoses, ducts, all. Check every bit of wiring and connectors. Anything cracked, corroded or even slightly suspect, you change. If you don’t you will go insane trying to make this thing run again.

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Whoa…I dont know why or how but I didn’t begin reading from post #1… LOL That was strange… Oops

Anywho…on one hand I want to discourage you from investing so much time and energy in a 94’ Plymouth Sundance…and on the other I respect your Gumption and willingness to wrench. It seems you are capable of doing whatever you want mechanically so…just do what you want.

If it were me? I’d start seeking out parts from a Lebaron Turbo or similar Chrysler/Mitsubishi engine…build yourself a high boost sleeper. Something like that…surely you dont want to do all this in stock formation?

I mean this vehicle is essentially worthless unless you find some kind of attraction or what have you with it… It would not be worth 1000 dollars in engine mechanicals etc… So I’m not sure what it is you are attempting here…are you trying to piece together something on the cheap, saving money using your skills? Nothing wrong with that… But dont go spending big dollars here…because there are far better platforms to begin with and with your skill you can turn it up from there.

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38

Jack up the radiator cap and slid another vehicle under it . This whole endeavor seems like a waste of money and time that may never have a last chapter.

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39

Sign up for an account at Allpar.com and ask your questions there.

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Thank you for all the people telling me that this car is a piece of junk, worth less than the cost of necessary parts, etc. Good thing I am not trying to turn a profit on this job!

Seriously though, I am restoring the Sundance for two reasons: first I like this type of car, and liked it when I was younger and there were millions of them, and second to gain knowledge and experience doing this type of work.

I am here for mechanical/practical advice on how to make this job go as smoothly as possible, and to end up with a good quality/reliable result when the work is finished. Preferably with as much “bang for the buck” as possible.

That being said, I’m trying to decide between the following options:

  1. Attempt to repair the existing engine. I cannot replace the missing balance shaft assembly, because in order to remove it from a car at a junkyard without destroying the chain that no one sells anymore, the engine must come out of the car. If I did all that work, then I’d just take the complete motor. Repairs would consist of buying a crankshaft kit which includes all of the matched bearings, buying a 2.2L oil pan and one 2.5L piston/connecting rod assembly from a “you pull it” yard. I would have a professional machine shop clean, check, and resurface the cylinder head, clean, check, and resurface the engine block, install the crankshaft and bearings to proper tolerances, and correctly thread and install a proper plug in the balance shaft oil gallery hole.

  2. Buy a different used engine from a junkyard which tests and pulls the parts for you. I see some online in the $500-600 range with low miles, but at distances of 510-590 miles away. I don’t really want to drive that far if I can avoid it. I would still presumably need to have the machine shop work done because I cannot install the engine fully assembled. Just as I needed to pull the head in order to disconnect the wiring from the starter prior to lifting the engine and transmission out, I would need to install the short block and transmission together, then reconnect this wiring, then install the head with the intake and exhaust manifolds already on it.

  3. Attempt to pull a complete motor at a “you pull it” yard. With another man, maybe I can accomplish this in two consecutive days. If not, then back to options 1 and 2.

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If your objective is to learn the most you can while still ending up with a good car to drive, seems to me option 1 is the best. The crankshaft kit you mention also contains the balance shaft you need right? This job will be much easier if done using an engine repair stand.