The folks in DC all got voted into office democratically. If you have a problem with DC, you really have a problem with the American electorate.
Abalone!
Think about the EPA, or IRS; heck think about any “alphabet soup” government agency of UNELECTED bureaucrats that have the power to pass regulations that you and I are obliged to comply with.
If you are okay with that, @Whitey, that’s your right, but don’t then turn around and claim that the US is a democracy! In FY 2013, the bureaucrats created more regulations* than our elected representatives did! If you don’t think our Founding Fathers are spinning in their graves…then you must have slept your way though US History.
Also, this business about always slipping in YOUR ideological 2c, but then to quickly turn around and flag everybody else for pointing out fairly gaping holes in your logic…it’s gotten REAL old, REAL fast.
Like I wrote in my note to DC, I hang my head in shame for my 2012 vote and if I could rescind it I would. I will strive to do better next time. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I have only missed one election in my life. That was a primary vote. I worked late and was just too busy to bother. My guy for mayor lost by one vote. I never told him but I have never missed a primary, school, or general election since. He probably wouldn’t have been elected anyway but still. In a town a few miles from here they were voting on a new fire hall. Out of like 700 total votes, it passed by three votes. They had a recount and it still passed by three votes.
Concerning all the alphabet soup of govt. Agencies that create regulations…these people are tasked by your representatives to achieve goals that WERE voted upon by the legislature. For example, achieving pollution reduction goals require a variety of different approaches and having to pass all the individual regulations to reach that goal would be an impossible undertaking.
Everyone and I mean EVERYONE sure liked the fact that local rivers and streams in our state are now sports fishing and recreational havens and sites for strong economic development when years before they were cesspools of raw sewerage and chemical pollution. They like the fact that the ozone layer problem has been reversed too. But these same people are short sighted enough to keep complaining about the govt. agencies and the regulations they put forward to accomplish these goals.
May be they think it all happened because of the benevolence of private enterprise and individuals who collectively all decided to do the right thing on their own and with no enforceable regulations. Sure…in a pig’s eye it did.
The problem is that they continue creating more and more regulations, and stricter and stricter limits, long after sufficient regulations have been written and sufficient enforcement is in place to meet the original legislative mandate. They become power oriented rather than goal oriented. They grow from a $1 Billion budget to an $8 Billion budget and just keep on growing.
The EPA was created to ensure compliance with the Clean Air and Water Act, yet in 2013 they began promulgating regulations for controlling CO2, which isn’t in the legislation they’re commissioned to enforce. Many of the things they do even have disastrous consequences, such as MTBE. One regulatory agency, the Dept of Energy, has managed to get the manufacture of incandescent lightbulbs banned, because they use more energy than florescent bulbs, yet florescent bulbs, which they promote as replacements, contain mercury, a toxic and permanent environmental problem that even gets into the food chain. A broken CF bulb is a HAZMAT spill.
I’ve long said that the EPA did a great job initially, but they’ve long-since become more about power in the beltway than about the environment. They’ve grown too big, and created stifling and sometimes damaging regulations… and, as all government regulatory agencies do, they’ve grown beyond accountability. They’re too big and too powerful to be accountable to any oversight body.
And IMHO there are countless regulatory agencies for which the above description fits.
I know we’ve debated this before. My opinion remains unchanged.
i just saw a documentary on Chernobyl. it goes to show you that the worst disasters can bring about something beautiful. there are wolve , bison, moose eagles and beaver galore. the beavers have destroyed 60 years worth of dykes and canals that drained hugged wetlands. the land has healed. from us, not the meltdown.
if I had to pick one place to spend my remaining years it would be there. radiation be damned, I d be dead before it killed me anyway.
I can’t say for sure, but it looks like this one’s going to head out of the car world. Could you please bring it back? Also, please try to dial back the sniping at each other. This is supposed to be fun; let’s not make the disagreements ugly and personal.
Same, all the excellent examples you give do have dramatic affects on many individuals, including myself in a negative way. But I would argue they are well within the mandates of the original purpose of the EPA. It’s not easy to decipher what is good or bad…until you look at the scientific evidence, the lost of wealth and the untold human suffering due to pollution. This planet was never “intended” to live out it’s life in in conjunction with the automobile and a plethora of other man made pollutants. But it is funny peculiar. There are just as many people who feel the EPA doesn’t do enough. They don’t set them up willy nilly and their panels are supposed to be made up of those represented by the industries and persons they affect, which does not always happen…though they are invited.
I often don’t see the big picture but like you, I am skeptical as well. Just from a little different perspective.
@meanjoe75fan Yes, I agree. I once had a boss who was of German origin, and every now and then we discussed politics. He wisely told me: " Unless invaded by outsiders, every country gets the government it deserves!" From the Roman Empire, to Russia, Nazi Germany, or Cuba.
Democracy needs vigilance by the electorate and only voting for those who bribe you with your own money and tolerance of corruption only results in the ultimate collapse of the economy.
Dag, you make some good points, but one that’s missing is consequences. Another is the sources of the EPA’s data on which they make decisions. EPA regulations and enforcement actions have consequences, like people dying because a needed highway expansion gets postponed for years, and its cost grows by tens of millions, while a state fights special interest “environmental” groups in courts because of some nonexistent possibly endangered species, or because of endless challenges to their environmental impact studies. The lawyers get rich and people die. And I truly suspect that the data used by the EPA in much of its decision making comes from special interest groups.
Anyway, I think we need to redirect to how it affects E85 and how that affects cars. Carolyn has been very tolerant, but has already rightfully slapped our wrists.
The thing about the EPA and all of the other government agencies is that Congress has empowered them to enact administrative laws in accordance with the Constitution. If the majority of this country’s electorate decide they don’t want the EPA to have that authority anymore, Congress can revoke it at any time. Contrary to popular belief, majority rule is alive and we’ll in this country.
I worked at a DOE uranium production site, and we dealt with the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act (CERCLA), commonly known as Superfund. We called it the Comprehensive Employment for Regulators, Consultants, and Lawyers Act.
well, I think “energy and environment” needs to be a topic around here. it comes up every week it seems. since cars effect and/or are effected by both of these things it seems appropriate to the sites mission to me.
To clarify, in case you thought I was sniping, TSM – didn’t mean it that way at all and couldn’t figure out to whom you were referring – I was referring to Wes and Whitey’s exchange upthread.
Do you think you’d like to go back to the E85 stuff? I’ve got no beef if you want to talk about EPA regulations vis a vis E85, but a broad-ranging, general discussion of the EPA is a bit beyond the forum’s scope.
As for an energy and environment section, I’m of mixed mind. I do have to compile the suggestions for the thread I stickied last week, but I don’t want to overpopulate the site with lots of subdivisions that don’t get much traffic. That brings up a thought that I think is more germane if I post it over there.