I am not planning any domestic or foreign commercial flights in the near future but will just renew my passport next month.
Well depending on what the planning entails, sure, or attempted murder, theft, fraud, etc. Just writing a note to yourself to steal a car someday, no. Just being a citizen though does not mean that you can’t be tried for treason, sedition, or as an enemy combatant against the state. Same as being a citizen does not prevent being tried in a military court if a member of the military.
At any rate point was we normally don’t lock people up because we think that they may some day commit a crime. Of course some folks are getting mighty close to that thinking about having a bong pipe (whatever that is) considered a crime, or a few thousand in cash as evidence of the intent to sell contraband. I do believe we have stepped in it and time to pull back a little to original legal principles. You know that old saying that he who chooses security over liberty will end up with neither.
+1
In my third career, I had to go to the County Courthouse every day, and–of course–each time I had to put my attache case through the X-ray machine, and I had to be scanned with a security “wand”.
I learned after a few weeks that one of my belt buckles would ALWAYS set-off their alarm, undoubtedly because of the composition of the metal, and that would result in… extreme measures.
After about 1 1/2 years of this daily screening, one of the Sheriff’s Deputies finally said to his partner… Jeez, this guy is here every day with the Deputy Attorney General, and we don’t subject her to something close to a strip-search, so I think that he deserves the same courtesy. Just let him through.
“I learned after a few weeks”
It took a few weeks?
“my belt buckles would ALWAYS set-off their alarm”
Always set off their alarms? Wow, I learned that in 15 seconds… my first time through TSA.
My belt goes in my carry-on now, every time. I’ve noticed that many, many other passengers do the same. 
My air travel money clip is now a wooden clothes pin.
CSA
I noticed that I got special attention at the body scan machine in airport security when I wore a certain pair of pants. After the second time, including a hand to crotch inspection, I decided to put those pants in my carry on bag. I wear sweat pants or shorts with no zippers or other metal parts.
The last time I flew out of the Buffalo airport, we got there pretty early, there was almost no line and I went right through. I went into one of the restaurants in the secure area and had coffee and a snack. When I came out I was thinking about something and turned the wrong way, joining the people exiting the airport and before I realized it I was back in the main concourse. I looked at the now long line and was afraid I might miss my flight so I turned around and wet back in the way I had come out. No one noticed.
The future is promising. Biometrics plays a huge role in this. Facial recognition and finger print scanning as you’re walking can greatly reduce the risk of someone getting through.
Well that was kinda my point. As we move to a perfect future with computers and more technology fixing everything, the question was how do we determine who should NOT get through? Based on what? We’ve ID’d the person but how do we ID their future behavior without getting really really invasive?
A quick lesson in Technology and computers - Computers programming is done by HUMANS…Not other machines. What determines who should get through is programmed by humans based on rules designed by humans. There is no magic.
Oh please. You can NEVER EVER determine a persons future behavior, either through technology or other humans. There is nothing in place now or in the future that will do that. All the TSA is trying to do is prevent people who shouldn’t get through from getting through.
. Do you have a ticket?
. Are you the person who’s name is on the ticket?
. Is your ID real?
. Any weapons?
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That remains my point. What does it really do? Want to blow a plane up? Just get a ticket and use your real ID. Oh but no weapons. So just check for weapons instead? I’m just having a little trouble seeing the real sense of it all unless we have a big data base somewhere of undesirables based on phone conversations, internet usage, memberships, and so on. Oh wait, we do have that. No more questions your honor.
Ah…you still go through security with a Real ID card. You still can’t bring even a pocket knife on board. Real ID is just another level of security. Where are you getting your mis-information from?
Yes there is. You go through a background check to get a Real ID. It’s not just automatically issued. Not everyone can qualify for a Real ID.
Exactly right. Only US citizens can get a Real ID. Foreign nationals have to present a valid identification to get past TSA checkpoints at airports. I imagine there are drivers licenses for foreigners that live in the USA and can’t get the Real ID type.
If you’re here on a work visa or you are a permanent resident (green card), then you can’t get a Real ID.
What misinformation would that be Mike? I may be wrong but I don’t see anything in Minnesota where they do a background check to get an enhanced license. All they are doing is verifying I am who I say I am. So like I said, how does verifying who I am improve security on an airplane? You say it’s just another level of security. But it’s just not real clear what that proves? I can use a passport instead and they never did a background check on me for that. The enhanced license is no better than a passport. So I suspect there is either some other reason behind it all that is not being published or it is just to make everyone feel good at a fairly substantial dollar cost with little or no actual impact on safety.
And I don’t get the information from anyone. It is from me. My own opinion based on my own work in security. No one got in my buildings without a proper key card, but that was a closed set of people, not the whole country.
Just another thought. Some of you young folks will not remember but 30 years ago or maybe earlier there was a fight to make social security cards an actual citizen identification card. (Ar least it was a hot issue among the people I was involved in that had something to do with identifying people.) Some folks were pushing for a national ID card of some type but lost the battle on the SS cards. I guess I never decided if I agreed with it or not but there was another group that were adamantly against any kind of national ID citing privacy concerns. With license plate readers, data on purchases, video cameras everywhere, black boxes in cars, internet usage data, and a whole host of other infringements on privacy, we have already lost quite a bit of what some consider a constitutional right to privacy (not really in there). So it kind of seems that the real ID issue is a back door into a national ID which can be expanded to further track people.
Some people have no problem with that because they want to be SAFE. Others say “live free or die”. I’d just like those morons in DC to be honest is all. No one is talking about this that I know of. They just sell “safety” as the most important thing of all. Those folks on Normandy weren’t really concerned with safety though.
If you are one of the more than 112,000 people on the United States no-fly-list you won’t be getting on the plane.
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Well that’s true. Edit: OK, poor comment.
This isn’t just for Bing, because I’ve been watching this thread. Technically we are still talking about licenses, which are used to drive cars, but it’s all fun and games until the Holocaust is invoked. Can we dial it back? Thanks.
I don;t get our national obsession with safety , life has never been safe and never will be. We have changed our way of life because of a few thousand deaths on 9/11 but there is no hysteria about 30 or 40 thousand deaths due to lousy, drunk or stoned driving every year.
One of my favorite quotes id " The coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave man dies but once."
I may have an unfair advantage though, I am way to old to die young!
In the same vein, I refused to listen to weather reports when I was an on call trucker. I had no choice of where I went or when I went, I just had 2 hours to report to work and could not refuse a call. I only suffered through the storm once, the guys who worried about the weather often could not sleep before they went out and that makes it REALLY tough to fight the weather.
A question occurs to me about real ID versus a conventional license. The real ID info says you will need real ID or a passport to enter a federal courthouse. What will happen if you are summoned or subpoenaed to Federal court and you have neither?