What a nightmare. Yet another reason, IMHO, that no spark plug should be left in a head for more than 50k miles.Wish I had known this at 50k. Now 73k. If dealer breaks any, will they claim my fault for waiting 13k past the sparkplug change interval? (60k , I think.)
If dealer breaks any, will they claim my fault for waiting 13k past the sparkplug change interval?YOU NEED TO ASK THE DEALER.
If the dealer claims that they will not be responsible for broken plugs, ask other dealers and private shops.
Also, if they don’t seem to understand how time consuming this job is, show them the video gsragtop posted on page one of this discussion. Make sure a non-dealership mechanic fully understands how easy it is to screw up this job before you hand over the keys, and make sure you aren’t on the hook if he rushes the job and messes up.
Now that I’ve watched the video, I agree, this is a terrible design.
I would break them all loose, a half turn or so. Then soak them with PB-Blaster, wait a few minutes, and work the plug back and forth until it is willing to come out without using impact wrenches or excessive force…
Mr. Gift, on these Ford modular engines, first you must remove the COPS without destroying them or their wiring connectors before you can even think about removing the plugs…Most shade tree mechanics lose interest at this point…
I don’t think any automotive facility, dealer or independent, would or should take responsibilty for broken spark plugs on a 3-valve Triton engine. I know I don’t. Customers here are advised of the known problem design, are quoted the price of a fuel injection/carbon clean service and labor to replace spark plugs, and agree that if a spark plug does break the cost to repair is our standard hourly rate for as long as it takes to fix it.
@asemaster: If they had to put the plug in the center of the combustion chamber, maybe they should have gone with a Hemi-ish design instead, and used two plugs per cylinder. I’d rather pay for two plugs that are easy to change than one that is a nightmare. The Triton doesn’t seem to make a very impressive amount of power anyway for all this trouble.
I don't think any automotive facility, dealer or independent, would or should take responsibilty for broken spark plugs on a 3-valve Triton engine.I don't think the customer should EVER be on the hook for this. It should either be Ford or the shop, and it should depend on whether the technician does the job the right way or the wrong way.
If the tech follows all of the procedures in the video and Ford’s service manual, and a plug breaks, Ford should have to pay for the repair. If Ford doesn’t do the right thing, I guess the customer would be on the hook, not the shop, and in that circumstance, I agree the shop shouldn’t be on the hook.
If the tech breaks a plug because he didn’t bother to do the job carefully and according to Ford’s procedures, he or the shop owner should be on the hook for the cost. Ford has done its part in providing proper procedures for this job. If a technician doesn’t follow those procedures, or modifies those procedures, and something happens, he only has himself to blame.
All this stuff makes me feel that I have been the better off for never owning a FORD.
. Customers here are advised of the known problem design, are quoted the price of a fuel injection/carbon clean service and labor to replace spark plugs, and agree that if a spark plug does break the cost to repair is our standard hourly rate for as long as it takes to fix it.
Are they told of the know problem in the design when they BUY the car or when it needs to get serviced?? If there’s a known problem with this design and they didn’t tell me up front when I bought it…but only NOW when they break one or more of the plugs at a cost of $1000…then I’d be p*ssed.
Customers here are advised of the known problem design, are quoted the price of a fuel injection/carbon clean service and labor to replace spark plugs, and agree that if a spark plug does break the cost to repair is our standard hourly rate for as long as it takes to fix it.
I don’t mean to offend anyone that actually fixes cars for a living but this is like putting a fox in charge of the henhouse.
“Sure, we’ll service your car with this horrible design we sold you but if we happen to break it in the process, whether it is our fault or not, we’ll charge you whatever it takes to fix it”.
That’s like saying “Sure, we’ll fix your car with those tricky bolts that should be turned to the left to loosen but, if we forget our righty-tighty/lefty-loosy rule and snap a bolt, we’ll charge you for whatever it takes to fix it”.
Seems like a license to overcharge to me. I’ll never own a Ford for now owning up to their screwups.
I can’t speak to what happens at the dealership, I’ve only ever been independent. Maybe the dealer can get some help from Ford on these spark plugs. But the fact remains that I’ve seen spark plugs break even if you follow Ford’s bulletin to the letter, I’ve seen guys do the job with no spark plugs breaking but they had spent twice the published labor time doing so, effectively cutting their pay in half. Who would work for 6 hours for 3 hours pay? I didn’t design the spark plug, I don’t own the car, I’m not responsible for repairing it unless I’m negligent in some way.
I agree it’s a raw deal for anyone who owns one of these engines and has to deal with this, but the corner garage is far down the list of people responsible.
Oh, I agree with you that you, as a mechanic, can’t lose money while honestly trying to fix someone’s car. If I were the mechanic, I’d likely refuse to work on that truck for fear of the damage that could be done just using regular tools.
It is just that Ford has proven to be seriously negligent.
This may be a case where it’s actually better for a fairly competent and careful owner who can turn a wrench to try it him/herself. If it were my truck, knowing what I know now after reading this thread, I’d trust myself to be more patient and methodical than a mechanic who’s trying to get the job done ASAP without losing money, and who knows that if a plug breaks, he can blame it on Ford and charge the owner for the ensuing repairs.
This may be a case where it's actually better for a fairly competent and careful owner who can turn a wrench to try it him/herself. If it were my truck, knowing what I know now after reading this thread, I'd trust myself to be more patient and methodical than a mechanic who's trying to get the job done ASAP ....My thoughts exactly. I would lethe liquid soak overnight or even longer. Would Liquid Wrench or other penetrating oil also be good to use? I would ask if I can buy thextraction kit to have on hand if needed, and return if not. Nowhich way do these unscrew?
A Denver Fordealer quotes:
$329 parts and labor. $40 extra for each break.
$15.12 per Motorcraft spark plug = $121 for the plugs
I would use only the recommended solvent in the recommended quantity. Too much fluid risks hydrolocking the engine, according to the guy dressed like a real mechanic 
and has a video on youtube so he must know what he is talking about…LOL
I’d be comfortable with a shop advising me of this. I’d feel they were just trying to let me know of the known problem so that of it happened I’d be prepared. I’d rather they tell me up front. I’d be livid with the designers, and probably never buy that make again, but I wouldn’t hold it against the shop.
I've seen guys do the job with no spark plugs breaking but they had spent twice the published labor time doing so, effectively cutting their pay in half. Who would work for 6 hours for 3 hours pay?Why would it need to take that long? While the vehicle is sitting so the carb cleaner can work, I would push it out of the bay, and then push it back into the bay to work on it again after it has sat.
I'd likely refuse to work on that truck for fear of the damage that could be done just using regular tools.All the tools they used in the posted video looked like regular tools to me. I own every tool they used in the video, and I am not even a mechanic.
@Robert_Gift:
Would Liquid Wrench or other penetrating oil also be good to use?Use only the recommended carb cleaner, and use only the recommended amount.
Nowhich way do these unscrew?I hope you're joking.
A Denver Fordealer quotes: $329 parts and labor.If the Ford dealer agrees not to stick you with the bill if something goes wrong, I'd consider that $329 money well spent. Overall, it would be cheaper than paying for a tow, paying for the repair, and STILL having to pay $329 to have the job redone.