(I feel like I’ve asked about this before, but I can’t find it with search. Apologies if I’m repeating. And if I am repeating, maybe it indicates that I’m getting closer to hoping the kids take away my car keys.)
I have two symptoms that I think indicate repair is needed, but I want to check with you experts.
Braking gently to a stop, just before stopping I feel a sudden small reduction of braking force and a small increase (I think) in engine RPM (like when the AC compressor turns off), and I need to push the brake pedal a bit harder. The car always stops ok. I do not notice this when braking hard. (It’s been happening for a few years. I don’t remember if it ever did definitely not happen.)
A few weeks ago, something prompted me to check for leaking cylinders (master or wheel). With the engine idling, when I press ■■■■■■■ the brake pedal the pedal goes (sort-of) slowly to the floor. With the pedal to the floor and the car in Drive, the brakes hold against moderately revved-up engine (left foot on brake, right foot on accelerator). For the 18 years that I’ve had the car the brake pedal never had a “sharp” grab that I can remember. OTOH when driving some other family cars (a Nissan, a Honda) I felt that the brakes grabbed much more sharply.
Thanks. Topic title should have said “brake system”. In particular, for safety I’m concerned about the soft pedal going to the floor (even though the brakes seem to hold).
If you have not had the brake fluid replaced, that can affect how well the brakes grab. However, the pedal going to the floor suggests a problem with th3 master cylinder. Likely needs replacing. You can have it all done at the same time by a good shop or dealer.
Volvo – Thanks. I suspected that, particularly the over-soft brake pedal. I drive only about 8K miles per year, almost entirely local suburban. Never been in a situation where I would have seen that until I was prompted to test it.
Please take this as constructive, is there other maintenance you have deferred? Coolant, transmission? BTW, just because you have never experienced an emergency braking situation, that does not mean you won’t. You never know when a kid, or adult, may step in front of your car. Since I have not had to take a behind the wheel driving exam for 60 years I don’t know if the emergency stop is still included. Our test on city streets, the examiner, without warning, yelled stop, was to see how you and your vehicle responded. In the 70s, when our cars were subjected to annual safety inspections, included holding power of both the service brakes and emergency brakes.
All I meant by ‘have not experienced’ was that I did not know about the possible MC problem until something (I don’t remember what) prompted me to test the brake pedal action.
This 22-year-old car with 180K miles has had a few parts replaced: tie rods, a radiator, rack and pinion, a blend door actuator, some brakes, and I don’t remember what-all else. (I could look it up. I keep all the maintenance records.)
I drive it gently, and I stay on top of things like oil changes; coolant replacement, brake fluid replacement, and transmission fluid replacement… as recommended by the helpful people here (I’ve been lurking for about 30 years).
I think I’ll add a periodic brake pedal test to my routine maintenance :>)
Not to be judgmental but good brakes are your primary defense against “Big Trouble”.
A “soft brake pedal” and “a brake pedal slowly sinking to the floor” indicate the need for immediate service.
I’m assuming that you’ve never had the brake fluid flushed and refilled so the good news is that it may only be that. OTOH, at 22 years old it wouldn’t be uncommon to find that your seals on the Master or one or more of your Brake Cylinders have gone from soft to rock hard and need to be replaced.
The good news is that quality Rebuilt components and their installation are relatively inexpensive and are certainly less expensive than when my elderly aunt drove to and INTO the Kelly store when her aging brakes failed.
Years ago our car suddenly had almost no brakes, they were fin red when we left home. Luckily the closest place to pull over was our trusted mechanics lot. Dropped off the key with a note leaving the car in front of the office. New wheel cylinders among the full brake job done. But it was only $250 for everything around 1987.
Beancounter – Spot on. But, as I mentioned in the previous post, I do have the brake fluid flushed and replaced every two or three years. The real lesson is that we ought to test our brakes real hard every now and then, looking to discover incipient problems, rather than find out the way wolyrobb did.
My own scariest braking story… I was driving my brand new Porsche 912 home from the dealer, Memorial Day weekend 1969. As I exited the freeway some $#*& cut me off really bad. I stomped the brake hard, and got pffft braking. I almost parked it in his trunk. When I got home a few minutes later I called the dealership: “Brakes failed!!!” Everybody gone except some sales people; bring it over anyway. So I did. A salesman listened to my tale, looked in the engine compartment, said “Hmmm,” wisely, and added a little brake fluid. Then he educated me that this behavior is expected of disc brakes until they wear in for a couple of hundred miles. Oh. My '66 Valiant did not have disc brakes. I guess I should have RTFM before I drove home.
That 912 was not a good car. I learned two main things: first, Porsches of that era had great longevity because their owners were wacko about keeping them fixed; second, I should never have bought that car :>)
My personal tale of “Brake Woe” and “They don’t make 'em like they used to” features a 1952 MG with an all steel master cylinder located under the floorboards, with the only access being a 2 inch hole under the pedals. Of course there was no fluid level warning light so the only way to check was to wiggle under the dashboard on your belly with a flash light, dip stick and socket wrench to remove the cover.
Short story, pulling up to a stop light the brake pedal hit the floor and after dancing on it like a flamenco dancer, yanked the emergency brake lever, which promptly separated in my hand from the floor! Last ditch effort was to double clutch into first gear and steer for the curb, which thankfully worked.
My point and the lesson learned was that the brake system is the most important system on your car, it’s one thing if the car won’t go but something very different if it won’t stop.
Under the floor boards was common. The master cylinder moved to the firewall in 1952 on Ford passenger cars, followed closely by General Motors in 1955. Before this change, older cars kept the master cylinder mounted under the floorboards. Studebaker Larks, 1961, the Hawks never relocated the MC to the firewall.
I’ll give myself a pass for being under 20 and not knowing much. After the falcons, my dad had a lark. No idea on the Mc. My Morris was on the floor because I had to add all the time. Luckily I had people around that could supplement my ignorance.
Yes, as posted, of course you need it to be looked at.
I’m not sure of the equipment on your car, but typically these symptoms would point to a faulty vacuum check valve at the brake booster. Cheap to replace.
